Housing Market

farking hell what happened to this thread?

A bored Monday Afternoon.. 

*remembers the number of times erica has completely changed her opinion in most threads*

OK everyone can take any other discussions to PMs now. I'll just delete any more posts I see here that aren't related to the housing market, and I won't be giving any warning or explaining why (should be obvious by now).

This thread is in the soap box for a reason. If you can't comprehend that then stay away.

So what they are saying is 98 % of home owners have insurance but 57% of renters dont have Insurance. Renters cant afford houses but People who have bought houses can magically afford insurance even though mortgage's generally cost more than rent per week??

Do the math ???

My partner & i bought in November last year and we have insurance. it can be done... I live on $100 a fortnight for Records, weed & coffee... fun times eh! 

That big difference with insurance is a little puzzling I reckon. I guess those renting might generally be in the lower income brackets than those with a mortgage/their own place so that might explain it. But that difference is pretty huge.

Or it could be that renters just dont see it as such a big deal to have insurance, they dont have as much to lose..

Home Owner: No insurance, Potential to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars and your home and contents
Renter: No insurance, Potential to lose would probably be on average $10k-20k and only losing contents

Yeah good point, plus most people probably have their contents insurance all bundled up with the home insurance.

cha- ching! I only started insuring when i moved out of share housing for these reasons... 

also working for an Insurance company I know we dont like insuring more than 2 unrelated people in 1 house.

I've had contents insurance ever since I moved into a flat on my own in the city in 2000.

I decided to get insurance as I was a single person living on my own; Neither I, nor my family, would have been able to replace everything I owned should my flat be completely gutted by fire; If my flat was broken into and I was assaulted, my policy would cover me for injuries sustained in such an event; I wouldn't have been able to replace things like my tv, computer etc. if my place was broken into.

In 8 years, I've never had to make a claim... but I wouldn't feel comfortable at all if I didn't have contents insurance.

I'm pretty sure my policy also covers some household fittings in the event of damage in some circumstances. If I owned a house, there's no WAY I wouldn't have home AND contents insurance.

I think if you're a renter and you can afford contents insurance, then you should have it.

I praised Allah over the weekend that I paid the $200 for Landlord's insurance.

$500 in carpet cleaning and $500 for the plumber for only a $200 excess.

And, unlike car insurance, where premiums go up if you make a claim, home/contents insurance doesn't.

Salam aleikum

man, ive always had contents insurance as a renter.

i cant change the shitty locks that most landlords have on their houses. fuck losing all my equipment or whatever. and fire? ok would hurt to lose all my tunes, but at least id get a hefty cheque again.
already had all of my CDs swiped as a 17 YO. man, that hurt.

cost me fuck all through SGIC

yeah, i pay a whole $20 a month to cover everything in our place.

really small price to pay in the grand scheme of things.

i pay $40 a month, but i'm covered for accidental breakage too coz i'm known to break stuff sometimes! and i opted for the cheaper excess!

I pay around $30-35 a month for my insurance.

it's a nice feeling to know you aren't screwed if something was to happen isn't it?

why people wouldn't pay approx $10 a week for piece of mind is beyond me. 

I think some people just can't comprehend how they'd be affected by losing everything. It's just like the people who don't get third party comprehensive (not just injury but damage) cover for driving. If you have a shitty old Toyota and you write off someone's new 7 series BMW you can suddenly be in court and lose your 200K flat...

does that include your records?
man, i was busting a=out about 30 of my entire houseshares 60 a month just cos of records and associated paraphenailia. fuck all in the scheme of things tho.

oli - you ever seen that german film 'the edukators'?

Jayar, no I don't think so... But I've heard of it (by it's German title - had to go look it up on IMDB). Sound's interesting - I might track it down.

would i get a cheaper rent if i had loads of dancehall n garage rekkids?

You would get cheaper rent cos I like your face!

awwww shucks

yeah sorry. i meant what comes out of my bank account. ali and i both pay 10 a week.

chris - do a search on the new hickinbottham affordable architect houses that have just been announced - the architect is max pritchard - damn spanky shit for 100K+

seriously nice for the price, and max pritchard is a bit of a don for doing good stuff affordably. sustainable emphasis too...

Hickinbotham Homes

Saves you a few clicks... They do have some decent designs I reckon (not that I know what I am talking about but oh well).

no sign of the new architect ones here though...

cbf searching, sorry, but there was something in the news about the launch today

ooh i like those designs tho! split level or two story all the way. what i would love in my place tho, would be inner courtyards to let light and air in. even in a two story place, maybe i could put in a neat maple tree

thanks julian!

will get onto it asap.

Our frinds built with hickinbotham accross the road from my block (building starts in about a month, yay).  A pathetic job done by a few of their tradies, escpecially the painter.  They also got ripped off when they changed a few things outside of the plan, and their slab cost them $10K more than us (slab isnt included in the original quote as it is subject to engineer/soil inspection). 

The house looks great now, but if you decide to build wth them be wary off additional costs and try and visit the site regularly to check up on the work (standard recommendations for any builder). 

hey which lot are u on roost, behind the foodlands on sth road? i wanna see ur house get built!!!

That is standard for ALL builders. No exceptions to the rule...

you see a price (like chris said 100K) thats a base price for the absolute minimum everything, cheapest fittings etc, which IMO is a false economy if you end up paying more to replace stuff only a few years after.

the moment you do ANYTHING to the base model, you pay for it.
footings will always vary. adelaide has fucked soils almost across the entire plain = bigger more expensive slabs.

that's it.

we're looking at a starting price of about 100k, but after we're finished, it will be in the 150k range.


still, very happy with that though as our mortgage rather than a 300k+ one with a property that needs fixing up.

the biggest issue that we have is whether ali's folk's driveway is going to be wide enough to create the easement we require to get the plan of division through.

this to me, is the only chance i believe that ali and i will be able to own property is to go ahead with this building. we don't earn enough money to be able to afford to buy a house that has already been built, unless we move to munno para or some shit.

thanks again julian (and tristen) i will look into it.

House number 69 (yup no shit) or lot 39, closer to Blight St 

Jayar, you're right they are all dodgy, this just happened a month ago so itsl fresh in my memory. 
Chris, you probably know the industry way more than I do, sure you'll be fine. 

cool i will go exploring this eve!!! maybe iwill put my initials in ur cement block when it gets poured

wow. i don't even understand myself.


you're on the right track anyway tristen. building is a much more cost effective way to go about property ownership if you ask me.

you're place will be worth close to half a million once it's finished. location, location, location and all that.

Chris, would Ali and yourself consider a unit as an alternative, should things not proceed with building?

You guys sound like you're in the same situation a few of my friends are in - borrowing power threshold, ability to service loans etc means if you want a 'house', you have to look very far North or very far South.

However, for anything between $215-$280k, you can get a very nice unit within 4mks of the city (Black Forest, Prospect etc).

Whilst it not be as roomy as a house, has Strata restrictions, shared walls etc, it's a start...

If you can tough it out for 18-24 months, and you save some $ where you can (e.g. stop buying records which are not worth anything), you can leverage equity in the flat to upgrade to a small townhouse or courtyard home a little further out from the CBD.

Rent the flat out as an investment vehicle, enjoy the tax breaks, and watch equity grow in both properties.

I know flats aren't for everyone (being single, I have no problem with it). But they are greatly overlooked by the people starting out when they can actually be a great stepping stone to get into the house you want, and provide solid investments along the way.

Just some thoughts, it's not for everyone...

 


Bingo, i did my research and that was my conclusion too 

one recommendation before you get your hopes up with builders etc then - go and make an appointment for an informal chat with the town planner for your suburb - theyll tell you striaght out what your facing.

we've done so with ours and the chief planner loves our design, spent an hour of his own time (after hours) searching through the development plan with us looking for a loop hole that meant we didnt have to have it assessed by the council D.A.P. (panel) ie the elected members who are butchers, bakers and candlestick makers who somehow deem themselves the arbiters of good taste.

no joy for loop holes unfortunately (if only our block was 1m wider fuck it!) but we're still confident it will get through on merit

it is a consideration, the only issue we would really have are the noise restrictions mate. we still mix a fair bit, and as a neighbour i know i'd be pissed off if someone else was mixing music that i don't like very much at strange hours.

if we can't get our plans through though, it will certainly be in our thoughts. cheers for your advice, i'm definitely taking all of this on board.


yep, that's our next step. because the property hasn't been subdivided yet though, we are waiting for a contour plan to be created and a rough plan of the amount of land we will actually have to play with. as soon as we have that in order, we will be making an appointment.

the thing i believe that will help us is that we are looking in the city of charles sturt, and we've seen some of the properties that have been built recently. some of them don't even look like they have any backyards at all (which is a pretty stock standard requirement).


just playing the waiting game atm. *crosses fingers*

my brother in law is a town planner at charles sturt chris, hit me up if need be!

no doubt. i daresay you shall receive a call!

thankyou ever so much for that info ser.

no wuckas!

Anyone bought a flat/apartment/cottage/house in the CBD? Or lived in the area renting?

Interested to hear opinions of living in the CBD, positive and negative. Or if you're not living there would you have considered the CBD. If yes or no, why?

Don't make any noise!!!!

My understanding of buying the CBD in other metropolitan cities is: don't.

The reason is because people buy a Studio/1br flat in the heart of the city and rent it out to a city boy/couple.

Because of all these high rises going up, there are more flats available than people to rent them. This drives the price down.

The investment property loan become unservicable, and people have to sell their main residences and move into the investment.

Whether this kind of economics translates to the Adelaide market or not, at this point in time, I do not know. Adelaide is going outwards, not upwards.

However, every agent I have spoken to has said 'do not buy in the CBD' for the reasons explained above.

When you look at all the work going in the city right now, and to come, they may have a point?

Good Q though Oli, can't WAIT to see what Erika comes back with. Something completely contradictory to my argument, no doubt

What about me? 

He's right though Oli.

Fluke, he's right about what part? Or all of it?


You have to remember there are people buying real estate who don't consider it purely as an investment. In particular people who are buying to live in it or buy something then rent it out to family.

There are plenty of people who consider real estate a relatively poor investment choice if they're very familiar investing money into other areas where they can make considerably more (shares, options, etc). Now I'm not trying to say that real estate is a 'bad investment' at all. I'm just pointing out that some people are confident enough that they can do better elsewhere. In this case, lower prices for the exact reason you mentioned are considered a good thing. Also if people are buying and not really needing to borrow a lot of money (because they have cash/assets elsewhere they can use/sell rather than borrowing) then the point about servicing the loan isn't really valid anymore anyway.

Edit: I was also asking about the lifestyle of living in the CBD and the conveniences/disadvantages that it has. If you work in town obviously you could save a lot by not owning a car. Also if you can't drive for whatever reason then it becomes even more attractive...

I don't really care enough about what you think to worry about it


I was only giving one example/reason as why not to buy in the CBD. If you're buying to live, you might find the lifestyle enjoyable.

The question you should ask yourself is for the amount of money you will spend on a fancy inner city apartment, can you buy a nice block somewhere on the fringe with a semi-decent house on it, which will grow in equity quicker over time?

As Adelaide has some nice suburbs with nice places on them in and around 4kms of the city, why would you throw nearly half a million into an apartment which has no land value? (Now I am sounding like Kurko!!!)

As for lifestyle, well, the city can't be beat as it's the most cosmopolitan part of the state. If you like bustling hives of activity, then go for it. Most old farts don't though, hence why Adelaide spreads so far out, rather than heading up.

As for ditching the car, why would you bother? Adelaide is the easiest town to drive around in the whole country. Everything worth going to is within 60 minutes of the CBD. Keep the car, you're not hurting the environment THAT much...

that there is an epic fail Rob.

you are back in full force, thats for sure. everybody lay down your guns, there is no point.

Rob, seriously, Erika.

Yes that's true. I think on the north western fringe of the city there are some areas like that that are getting a lot nicer pretty fast (at least compared to how shit they have been for a long time. The parklands certainly are a route into town that aren't anything to complain about.


Hehe. I sense some sarcasm in the first sentence there.


Fair enough. Not everyone has a choice about driving though so city living is a big advantage for them. Especially considering that some places in town don't include a car park. Living outside of town but working in town means relying on our shitty public transport system.

Fluke have you spent a longer period in any big cities? Seriously, every time I hear people whinging about traffic in Adelaide I find it hard not to laugh at them.

wtf are you on about, fail?

Have you ever driven in Sydney or Melbourne? It's a fucking nightmare. Forget Brisbane, they are all one way streets! Drive in circles for hours.

We have it so unbelievable good here, I have no idea why anyone at all would want to complain about Adelaide's driving conditions.

Adelaide drivers on the other hand, well, they are the worst in the country. Will happily complain about them all day.

Oli - if you don't have a car, then the city works better, especially if you work in the CBD.

However, places like Norwood, Kent Town, Keswick, Everard Park, Black Forest, Fitzroy, Brompton etc are only 2-3 kms out of the city, are easily accessible with public transport, and there is a better chance you will get some land with your money.

Depends if you like catching buses/trams or not

Two words my friend: PEAK OIL
Look at the fuss everyone is making over $1.60 a litre petrol! With western demand outstripping supply at the same time as China and India are wanting more and more oil, petrol prices have only direction to go. Up. Quickly. We're already looking at $2/L by christmas...
Fringe land will very soon devalue comparitively (slums of the future) and the inner suburbs and city will be even more in demand.


not quite - they are servicing a lot of the overseas students who's parents are buying them straight out and then selling them afterwards. There's not the same levels of glut that there is/was in melbourne or sydney and the demand is driving on the higher density developments.
Its just an Adelaide mindset re apartments, one that is thankfully changing... The more choice of housing types the better.
Plenty of people (particularly the younger and the older) dont want the responsibility of a big garden to look after.

All we got for our rental house was excess water bills because the landlord insisted we had to keep the damn lawn lush (in a period of water restrictions no less) or we would lose our bond - we were damned either way.

Good point re: oil. Will be interesting to see which way the house buying dynamics shift once we hit $2 p/l.

Completely agree with this. Reminds me of a memorable return from Germany. Front page advertiser on the day I returned had an aerial photo of about 800m of cars queued up to go into the newly opened Harbour Town shopping area at West Beach as if it was some amazing event. In the week prior (in Germany) you'd drive around and get traffic reports like "Fünf kilometre Stau auf der blah" as in five kilometres of blocked traffic on whatever autobahn. But not just once, you'd get 10+ of these reports often reaching 10km of blocked traffic due to an accident or something else. And that'd just be for the state you were in and perhaps those directly around it. They wouldn't even bother reporting something 1km long...


Haha, being a passenger so much recently has made me realise how true that is.


Yeah, those areas are decent and certainly worth considering as well. One interesting thing I've noticed (with your posts in particular) is how people seem to put so much emphasis on getting "some land". I can't quite comprehend it.. I mean, what's the big deal about having some land? If you have a strata title on a new apartment in town I can't see why this would matter.


Yeah that's certainly a good thing for buyers who don't want to do this, because it means there's always a lot of stuff to choose from.

'Land' increases in value quicker than an apartment of flat.

Have you ever seen an ad posted that says 'House for Sale - Land Value'

It means the house is worth little, but the land is worth something (as it means you can demolish the house and re-build, or subdivide and build if the block is big enough and the council permit it).

Kilburn was a good example of this - lots of ex-housing trust homes, semi-attached etc. When people realised how close it was to Prospect and the city, without the Prospect price tag, developers bought up the blocks in droves, binned the shanty houses, subdivided and put lots of courtyard homes on them.

Land grows in value much quicker than apartment blocks, as blocks have no 'land' component. You're essentially buying 4 walls and all the fresh air inside them.

klemzig too.  in the year i lived there, pretty much every house on my street got bulldozed!

ferryden park went through that a few years ago too when it became westwood estates.

marion isn't far away from doing the same.

if you look for the older suburbs you are going to get more land without a doubt. most pieces of land in adelaide started out as quarter acre blocks because at the time the need to grow your own vegies/keep chooks etc etc was relevant.

these days it's not the case, and most of these places are just a 3-4 bedroom old house with a lot of land. you can make some serious money by subdividing them.

i still want vegies & and chooks!   

Yeah the subdivision thing is pretty insane. It's happening down here at West Beach as well. I used to tell people I was in the 3rd house on the right. Now I'm in the 4th and soon I'll be the 5th.

has your street address changed???

Fuck me some of you are so goddamn blind!!

How much is the government struggling to bring the transport infrastructure up to a sub-par level? There is no way in all hell that Adelaide will even have infrastructure anywhere near as good as other cities.

Melbourne has two tunnels going completely underneath the fucking city you twats! Not to mention the motorways which allow you to cross the WHOLE city from one end to the other in the time it takes you to get from Elizabeth to fucking Prospect.

"Have you ever spent a decent amount of time in another city. "

Fuck me you make me laugh.

Nah, I think the new places get 12A and 12B or whatever instead of them changing every single house along what is probably one of Adelaide's longest suburban streets.


Fluke nobody said that the government was doing a good job on infrastructure, in particular relating to transport. In fact I agree with you that they are doing a bloody terrible job. The point I was making (and Rob as well I think) was that in comparison with other larger cities Adelaide is still very easy to get around in if you're driving. There is next to no real congestion here.

State Government here has always under invested in infrastructure, or left it to fall apart before making any big changes.

To complain about Adelaide's lack of infrastructure is rather redundant.

Adelaide will always be behind on infrastructure.

Why?

Because we're only a million people in a country town which is pretending to be a metropolis.

And we're not growing that much. Gen Y are not having as many babies.

If people really cared that much about better infrastructure, the changes would have been made already. We still have one carrier maintaining our Nation's communications infrastructure, so complaining about a few road works in Adelaide is only going to cause you to have a stroke.

4 Br house in Huntfield Heights on 1000+sqm land for $290k.

Insanity.

Why do you think I want to get out of this hole of a city?

In 5 years time, the amount of people over the age of 60 in this place is going to double.

Why else do you think Adelaide is such a conservative waste of space? Full of old people.



Oh, and the reason why Adelaide has no infrastructure and, as such, is full of old people who want to sit at home watching the crows on a Saturday night knitting a crows scarf for their nephew in Melbourne, is because it was the only state that sold off all the land that had been put aside for such development during times of financial need.

You seem angry.

Are you taking any prescription medications for your anger issues?

offtopic

:ban:

I'll take that as a yes.

So where are you moving to? What city's integrated infrastructure will you consider and evaluate before moving?

See, what happens when you move to London, and the tube goes from 2 minutes per train to 3 minutes per train?

I assume that would be enough to give you a coronary...

dude, wtf are you talking about

it will be more interesting to see what happens when petrol hits $5 and then $10/L
its not a case of when, but how soon... we are at the beginning of that 'J curve' now.

a piece of land is going to be 'worth' fuck all financially in a few years from now - its all going to be about how much less driving you can get away with, so inner city it where its at. the land in the outer burbs will at least be good for growing food (which will also become far more expensive with rising fuel costs)

bike riding FTW!
no cost, less concerns with lacking infastructure, cheap, stops you being a fat cunt, soon to be less cars on the road

I don't doubt we will get there ($5 p/l), but I don't see it happening in the timeframe you predict.

People will always want shelter over a car. You can't sleep in your car.

What you will find is people will start commuting less, and start working from home more.

Pressure will be put on the Government and Corporations to upgrade the infrastructure so people can collaborate and work from home, thus not needing to buy so much fuel.

They can't work from home if they do not have a house to go to.

Thus, land will always be valuable.

People who say land will be worth 'fuck all' are delusional - God is not making any more land, is he? We're going through immense climate change, so protection from the elements will be cruicial.

And we will all be working from home as we won't be able to afford to run vehicles. A job I have been offered has it's HQ in Brisbane, but I would work out of my apartment.

Sorry J, not jumping on your hippy bandwagon with the property thing. I guess in 10 years we will know who was right...

Jayar I think you're going a bit far in saying that a 'piece of land is going to be worth fuck all'. Rob's right that land is limited and so prices are unlikely to go down much, especially the way our economy is going. If anything the only major change we will see is that areas in a ring around the CBD are going to grow in value much much faster than anywhere else in particular when petrol get more and more expensive.

Also, growing food directly around Adelaide is stupid. A lack of water is as much of a problem as high oil prices.

Jayar for PM! He's gonna put in a desal plant in Norwood. Fuck off all those rich c*nts in their Beamers!

have you taught your baby to ride to the doctor if it gets sick?

what if you break your leg or something? is it good fun getting to a bus stop? riding the bus even?

no way in hell i'd force strangers on a bus to have to listen to my child if it decided to throw a tantrum, be loud. even less chance i'd make them have to smell the crap if they haven't been toilet trained either.

bikes and buses are great for sure. i personally believe my car to be necessary though.



agreed.

Ever thought of balancing out your reading of Green Left/Socialist Alliance Party's unsubstantiated conspiracy theory leaflets with some well studied Economic theory? The factors that effect price on everything else are the same that effect price on oil/petrol/gas, and these factors are not about to jump into some vortex of irrationality.

lol @ 'vortex of irrationality'

Nah, I actually agree with you.

Fuck living in the city. I hate the city. Its bad enough I have to come into town everyday just for work. (personally I am all for quality of life over convenience) If I had a choice (and the money straight up so I wouldn't have to loan the cash due to interest rates) I would be buying land in a coastal area. And sitting on it for a couple of years. 

I regret not buying land in Victor/Port Elliot a couple of years back when I had the opportunity... a few months ago I saw the development plans for Victor Foreshore and property down there is only going to go up.

Jayar- Are you serious?

 

I think, even in general economics... when something becomes scarce- it becomes more valuable.

victor harbor has been struggling for about 2-3 years. we have direct involvement with the market up there (we have an office on ocean st)

properties aren't being sold. not very quickly anyway. prime example are the new apartments that went on the near ocean street 2 years ago. only half of them have sold. brand new apartments. (overlooking the ocean too mind you)


some vendor's have even brokered deals between real estate agencies up there to see who can sell their property first (if at all). take notice if you go up there next time. there's a lot of places that have two different real estate signs up.

we're waiting for one of our clients properties up there to sell so we can settle their purchase. it's been 6 months since it went on the market.


so yeah, i disagree with what erica has to say about victor harbor. it will improve, but not for a while.

Yeh I understand what you mean. But still, If I had the choice (and cash straight up.... not borrow it so I wouldnt have to pay rates) I would buy land (not an actual property with a house) and just sit on it and wait for a while.

But thats just me... Ive seen plans for the future development of victor, whereas you are seeing what the current market situation is now and judging from that?

I kinda think that the futute market is not reliant on what is happening currently? however you may? some interesting advice though chris

The problem with places like Victor is that they get so hyped up that they build a load of places all at once and put them all on the market at once. Then of course the market is oversupplied so they either can't sell them or have to bring the prices down. If they timed everything better and supplied the market more slowly/gradually then they'd probably make a lot more money.

If I could I would be buying up residential land in a mining area too at the moment. Anywhere near olympic dam

http://www.olympicdameis.com/project/master_plan.htm

There is no way the government will give up residential land for farming land. What will happen is the suburbs will continue to spread out, and food will simply become more expensive, and we will suck it up and cope like we have always done. They'll tax us less or subsidise food or some shit.


I can't see the larger employers allowing the employees this kind of freedom.

Sure, some companies like the one you work for might, but I can't see Microsoft or Google or Apple allowing employees to take their work outside the corporate environment, where anyone can be invited over to see the work, anyone can break into the home and steal company secrets.

And it's totally useless for any kind of manufacturing job.

Very true! Government is doing it now. Look at aldinga and up north- where government buys up farming land for land divisions

Its easy to do, government does it all the time.

Compulsory acquisition. We tell the farmers we want their land -LMC buys it and planning SA rezones it from primary to residential

Bam! see ya later farmers.

he's talking about the other way i think... residential --> farming

thanks for the tip erika. but i do know what i am talking about.

what future plans does victor harbor have in mind? there's too many properties for the population up there anyway.

and no, i don't think the future market is reliant on the current market. but it certainly does affect it. more than you realise it would seem.


ding ding ding.

victor isn't such an attractive place to live if you ask me. really nothing there.

I know. And I am agreeing with funky that this does not happen. If anything it happens the other way-   farming --> residential

Oh well, I was just giving a personal opinion. I wasnt questioning yours- more than anything I was taking it on board as some good advice

We seem to have ALOT of experts on this topic

 

Welcome to the Internet dude!

 

i only understand victor because of our office up there. we have a very good relationship with LJ Hooker up there and i know they (and others according to them) have been struggling for a while now.

they are making most of their money on weekly rentals for tourists, not from sales.


also, i wasn't meaning to have a go before either erika. just have a difference of opinion of that area at the moment.

No worries, I hope you understand that I didnt mean to come across as questioning it I just wanted to know more- I take your opinion seriously as you work in the area of sales/transfers of land. You actually would see where places are being sold etc. I can only go from a public sector property perspective where sometimes it is very different from what is actually happening on the ground.

If you were wondering what the future plans are for victor- here are some I found on the the Victor council website- I saw some of the earlier sketching of these plans (thats if ya can be bothered looking at it )

http://www.victor.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/05-219_Victor_Harbor_Master_Plan_smallestpdf.pdf

Hopefully these township developments will increase the sales in victor... and increase tourism. maybe when the baby boomers retire, they will be looking for a seachange? 

Im going to stop going on about victor now 

Spot on the money.

I spent 19-20 years in Victor/Port Elliot and there is nothing there.

The only industry that does well is tourism and even that is only really for half the year.

The population down there tends to be old retiree's or young families(under 25 with 2-3 kids). I would only buy property down that way if I was looking for a holiday house I could stay in and rent out when not using it. Not an investment/full time rental property.

As for the plans, the Victor council has always had big ideas for the place, most of which fail miserably.


It is essentially a place for people to go and die.

Are you high?

Microsoft, Google etc are all letting their employees work from home NOW. Governments all over the world are letting people dial in and work from home NOW.

With computing moving to the cloud, it will get to the stage where offices will be virtual - strictly an address on a business card. You dial the number, it's routed by VoIP to someone's phone on a desk at their house. They provide you with the service you need, and you are none the wiser.

Trust me, this is the future of computing. Buy Google stocks now, because when their cloud computing products mature, they will dominate like only Microsoft once could.

I never understood why Bill Gates didn't get the internet. You would have thought he would have seen it was the way forward, but apparently not. Now Microsoft is suffering for it.

Anyway, I digress. People will work from home more for convenience, to achieve work/life balance, to help their companies reduce captial and operational expenditure and reduce and offset the amount of carbon emmissions they produce.

Welcome to the cloud.

ding ding ding

winner

Are you serious?

Work from home?!

OMG THE SECURITY RISKS!!!!

Oh right thats what I'm doing this very second, I think I will do a lot more of it soon as well as it is so much less stressful!

Hmmm bandit country vs. home

Not a hard choice to make

I live in the future cause my employer (me) lets me work from home.

Seriously though, there are plenty of industries that will move the way Rob is predicting. There are also plenty that won't for a number of reasons, especially in the corporate/big business world.

Corporate/Big Business are the ones driving this move toward cloud computing.

The data centre is becoming a dynamic, scalable, agile, secure, resilient, efficeint, redundant information repository that is delivering software as a service to customers and end users the world over.

It is no longer the static, inflexible, under-utilised, over-provisioned, expensive resource glutton it once was.

The world's leading global vendors are moving towards Service Oriented Architecture (SOA). They want to deliver your software applications to you online anywhere in the world.

Corporations do not want to pay for your desk space, your car park, your car allowance. They don't want to pay to keep the lights on, the photocopiers maintained, the carpets cleaned. It is about rationalisation and getting the most efficieny for the least expenditure.

If all they need to do is give you a phone, a laptop and an internet connection, they have saved themselves thousands of operational dollars, plus probably have gained a more productive worker as people who work from home actually tend to work longer hours.

Sorry, but I have spent some time designing and delivering this architecture to companies who wish to set themselves up for SOA, and it's definetly the way of the future.

I didn't say they weren't driving it. I am saying there are always going to be businesses where working from home simply is not an option. Dealing with security issues in corporate networks is hard enough without letting people take their work laptops home with corporate data, then having them use it as a private computer where they load it up with bloatware and spyware, etc...


A real data centre has nothing to do with this discussion. A data centre is a physical environment designed to house servers and network infrastructure with redundant cooling and electrical facilities and redundant network connectivity. What the hell has that got to do with people working from home? It might be something they connect to. That's about it...


See my first point. Some corporations don't have a choice.


Yes, it looks great from a corporations perspective in cases where it's suitable. It doesn't mean every employee is going to like it though. Working from home has its disadvantages as well (for the employee). Most of them are pretty obvious so I can't really bother listing them.


I'm not trying to say you are wrong, and I agree that more companies will go down that route. All I'm saying is blindly believing that it's suitable everywhere is stupid. If you are working in a company selling those solutions it doesn't mean you have to try and sell them to us here as the be all and end all of the IT world.

Um, I think you will find Rob is actually right. In most Government jobs (and larger organisations) you can work from home.  For example women who have just come back from maternity leave can work from home several days a week.  I have several people at my work who work from home.  (However, I do think that they perhaps not as productive compared to the rest of us who work daily in the office)


Um, you may find that the link for the plan I provided has actually been a plan which is approved at council level and state level and many government bodies (i.e. coastal protection board, DAC) have all endorsed it so it WILL happen.  These proposed developments have already begun by the council.

Also I think maybe action Planning occurs at a step by step level- change doesn’t occur overnight.  It also depends on available funding and budgets.

However I havnt lived there like you have... I guess you have experienced what it is like down there as a local

For the record, I do not believe it will be suitable everywhere. Some people will need to go to a place of business to be productive.

My argument is that whether people are accessing a corporate network internally or externally, the threat remains the same. People can leave laptops in cabs (risk), viruses can penetrate defenses (risk), VPNs can be hacked (risk), USB keys with corporate intelligent property can be dropped in hotel lobbys (risk). Doesn't matter if you're connected or not.

Corporations are weighing up the risk of loss of IP to competitors (or to the media) vs. the savings to be had by rationalising their operational costs and see little risk for big reward. Let me put it this way - if the bank you choose to do business with was on the front page of the Advertiser because thousands of bank account details were obtained through hacking, would you change to another bank? More often than not, no, you wouldn't. Too much hassle.

Your aversion to this way of doing things (based on your issues with security) reflect the level of conservatism echoed by a lot of Adelaide's IT industry, so I don't believe our little corner of the world to be on the bleeding edge of cloud computing (hell, it's tough enough to convince an IT manager that virtualisation is the way forward, let alone putting their apps in the cloud!).

But, when you look at Google taking on Microsoft with their online (and soon to be offline) office apps, and now integrating with CRMs like Salesforce, you can see which direction things are going to head.

And don't underestimate the importance of the data centre - where do you think all these online apps will be housed?

Edit - I wish to clarify that security in IT is a big issue, and not one to be taken lightly. I think I am just reporting on what I see happening in the industry versus what should be happening. As hackers get smarter, the need to tighten security will become even more prevelant.

Lots of money to be made in IT security consulting, if anyone knows how to hack

Erika, I think John was being facetious

I do like we're agreeing so much today, though. Wanna make out?!

 

Oh righto

Anyway -I thought this is the housing thread not the IT thread, we have kinda diverted from the original conversation of the thread
 
P.s. No I will not make out with you! 

Ok, back on topic

Kurko, where are you going to go and live? Are you going to rent there, or buy?

PS - Your loss honeybun, I am a GREAT kisser xxoo

Heading off to Spain and then maybe Costa Rica to live for about 6 months at a time, but looking at moving either to Mar del Plata, Buenos Aires, or somewhere closeby to live, or somewhere in northern Laos. Who knows, anywhere far away from people like you.

So you have actually planned this and set a date? or is this a future aspiration of yours- which is yet to come into fruition?

Before May 2009. We want to be settled so we can go on a trip to Sardinia for Sun & Bass week.

We need to save some coin first ( i need to earn some coin )

I am hurt you would say that

Sounds like a great adventure though. Good luck to you!

hug?

Not that hurt...

 

faaarking fuck me and my damn overuse of exaggerrations!

true, fringe land wont be worth 'fuck all' but it will comparitively struggle to hold its value. consider it - why the hell would you want to live in a fringe suburb, with few services and great distances to travel anywhere when petrol is REALLY scarce and damn expensive? you wouldnt.

funky j - you misunderstood what i was saying re growing your own food. i meant a return to the higher rates of self sufficiency of people growing more of their own food - that is a reason there were so many more quarter acre blocks from the land divisions of the early 20th century. post war this space became 'grass for the kids' 



Ever thought of pulling your thesaurus out of your brown vortex for a second?

There are factors at work on global oil production that work outside your studied economic theory (geology anyone?) particularly if you count the fact that opec's oil output vs reserve figures are little more than fiction. simple facts - the amount of oil being 'discovered' around the world is not adding to the reserves fast enough to meet demand of a growing world (esp now that the 2 billion of china and india want their share) and all the easiest, cheapest to drill oil has been largely used: so less easy-access oil for more people means not only do costs go up for drilling deeper and refining shittier grade heavy oils, the higher demand means higher global price.

Given our entire economic prosperity of the last century or so has gone hand in hand with the access to cheap energy (specifically OIL) it doesnt take a PHD in economics to work out that when there's less oil to burn, move our food and goods around etc, that shit is going to keep getting more and more expensive and the economy is going to suffer severely. we're living in the moment of a cheap energy bubble that will eventually burst ~ enjoy it while it lasts (i am ) and plan for the future accordingly. ie dont buy fringe land.

Rob: yeah, i hope it wont be $5 a litre soon either, but $2 is easily plausible by the end of this year, so whats yor bet on how long till its $5?









meh, i dont believe all this crap about working from home making a significant difference either. years ago they said we'd have paperless offices and robots to do more of our work so we'd have more leisure time. where's my fucking robot, cos i want to go home.

 

Now this quote is well worthy of a signature 

Firstly Julian, seeing as these non-economic factors are at play on the Economics of pricing, these factors are accounted for in economic appraisals of the oil situation. There are 3 main factors that effect price; inflation, tax, and supply and demand. Inflation is obviously somewhat of a universal matter. Taxes are state controlled. So supply and demand changes are what you are mainly basing your prognostications on.

Obviously you have touched on one of the factors, discoveries are not happening fast enough. Regulation is making sure alot of the reserves are untouchable aswell. Another factor is obviously political instability in certain oil producing nations leading to a risk premium on the majority of produced oil at the moment.

My point though is this. Even the experts in these fields are largely unwilling to predict the future of these situations. There are so many schools of thought on how much oil could be discovered with less regulation on new drilling it is almost unfathomable. Who can tell me honestly that they can predict the government regulation of reserve usage? Do you know what the future of the political instability in the vast majority of oil producing nations will be? The instability has already resulted in a risk premium, can that risk caused inflation grow?

I will admit most things do not augur well for the future price of oil. In fact if anything it has been oddly underpriced for some time. If nobody in the world is willing to adequately predict the future of the effects of supply and demand on oil at the moment though, your statement is nothing but a poorly educated guess. Add on some extra pessimism for your paranoid world view.

I just hate things being presented as factual, when there is so much more to the situation.

can someone buy me a house?

pm me with the details


cheers

exactly!!

all anyone in here is doing is making a guess, whether it be educated or not, no one is "more right" okay. you can not  factor in unpredictability or the unknown.

blah blah blah oil oil oil..... i thought we were talking about houses in here?

fuck sake man, are you really that naive???
yeah sure, i know it looks much cooler to say "hey all will be swell" but really, your posturing is no more informed than mine, regardless of the number of 12 letter words you can use in one sentence. christ UK government policy (for example) has been based around the continued cheap supply of oil (based on $70 a barrell for the foreseeable future) which clearly is already out of date.

my point is this: oil was cheap. now, we're not about to run out tomorrow, but people clearly have their head in the sand if they think its going to remain anywhere near as cheap as it has for the last few decades/century. and the sooner you learn to understand and begin working out plan Bs to try and adapt, the better. sure, theres 100s of years worth of oil in canadian oil sands etc, but its going to cost you a sweet penny to get it. whatever fashionable economic theory that you subscribe to whether it be neo-con free marketeer, friedman, socialist or marxist, it aint going to mean crap when the cheap oil is beginning to run out, as is happening now. i mean shit, the guy who came up with the idea of peak oil was ridiculed when he first announced it was going to happen to the US in the 70s. and wahey - he was spot on the money.


  vote 1 best comment in thread

Whats the status of peak oil, been reached yet?  By my understanding with advances in technology and some recent 3rd world discoveries we wont see it for a while yet.  The oil will be around longer than a semi intact climate will, so i reckon the economic effects from climate change will in the end get us before extreme oil prices do.   

When I say that elements do not augur well for the future of oil prices how can that be miscontstrued to be a naively optimistic view of the future? I took exception to the proliferation of unsubstatiated numbers and claims in your original post. $5, $10, J curve; these are all impressive looking numbers or concepts, with no factual backing. You parade them around as if they are certain to be definite in the near future.

There will be a day when petrol prices will be $5, even $10; as to when we will see this, little is certain. What I am certain of at the moment is this: Peak oil has been predicted as happening anywhere from already, to as late as 2050. Political instability in the Middle East is unpredictable but not looking positive to improve. Emerging nations will provide a rise in demand, but as to how much they will emerge is up to global matters. State regulation will change and adapt as much as needed to allay any crisis, but will still be necessary to keep reserves. According to a few different sources February of this year supply and demand changes were responsible for 4% of the rise in gas prices in the last 50 years in America; this is seemingly beginning to grow though. The future for alternative fuel sources is at this point incredibly uncertain.

As I have said, this does not paint a positive view of the future of oil prices, but it also full of uncertainties. All that can be said for sure is that fuel prices will rise, and this will have an effect on human action. Anyone not factoring the changing oil landscape in to their future decisions is indeed naive; anyone making wild assumptions that $5 and $10 will be upon us quite soon, and that we will see a definite J curve in the data is equally naive. Too many things are left up to the vicissitudes of particular human action, and the adaption to indefinite circumstance, to ever be so certain you can make such bold claims.

See, I said almost the same thing as you; except I stuck to fact, instead of getting caught up in the hyperbole of wild estimation. You have even admitted to your constant hyperbole in regards to housing prices. Doesn't it sound so much more rational when you stick to the facts though?

I'm no less aware of my use of polysyllabic words than the first time you brought it up by the way. Do you think you could stop bringing it up as a valid form of attack?

no, not until you cease using ridiculous words as a form of some pseudo-intellectual attack!

and are you going to honestly tell me that what youve just written is any less speculation (not 'fact') than what i wrote simply because yours is less pessimistic or more 'business as usual' because i dont see any more fact or references backing you up than me?! i wrote about what ive been reading about for the last 5+ years and you crap on about anal vortexes and make stupid remarks about green left conspiracy theories? and yet some of the crap youve just written is incredibly naive, the sort of garbage i'd expect to read from an IPA press release about australian government influence on world oil prices. And remember, australia isnt america, we dont have the same oil reserves as they do (though they hit peak oil just as predicted in the 1970s)

if you cant stand by your comments, dont bother making them in the first place. peak oil is more than a theory and while its true that the predicted time we will reach it varies, general consensus (from what ive read) is that we are upon it basically now. your interpretation of what constitutes "soon" for $5/L petrol may not be the same as mine - for the record im predicting well within 5 years.





so back on topic - it will become a lot more expensive to drive a car, so living in a suburb where you need to drive lots will suck teh balls in the forseeable future.

I don't understand how you could have read all these reports in regards to this issue; most of them are full of them big scary words things that want to devour, sorry too big a word, I mean eat, your soul.

I didn't state peak oil was a mere theory, I stated that nobody is sure when or if it has been reached. This you seem to agree with, and then disagree with later when you choose to claim that Hubbert was absolutely, undoubtedly correct when he claimed peak oil would hit sometime before 1971.

I also didn't state that America and Australia were the same nation, it is just easier to find American authors on the subject. It is fair to say that whilst supply and demand change has only been responsible for 4% of the rise in gas prices it probably hasn't been responsible for 98% 'oh god we are all going to die in a fiery hell' of the rise in Australian prices. Somebody find me the price of petrol in Australia in the 1950's and I should be able to calculate a near percentage.

Lets look at what I did state:

1. There will be a day when blah blah blah: The fact that inflation has always been a definite, means this is of course 99.9% certain. Regardless of other factors that will also drive the price up.

2. Peak oil has been predicted at all sorts of crazy times: You seem to have read this in places, so I feel no need to direct you to sources.

3. Political instability in the Middle East is unpredictable but not looking positive: Been near a media source lately?

4. Emerging nations will provide a rise in demand: more producey and more worky mean more drivey

4a. As to how much they will emerge and demand is unpredictable: The burden of proof is not on me for this one, you provide me with the source that scientifically proves the exact rate of growth and demand in emerging nations and I will discount the claim.

5. State regulation will change and adapt: Watched the news lately, people are telling Rudd to fuck with the regulations, he is kinda listening, not much, but things will obviously be done. As to how useful regulatory changes will be...?

5a. It will be necessary to keep reserves: No reserves then things get real bad n' shit like.

6. supply and demand changes were responsible for 4% blah blah blah. The best source I can find for that is a mediocre article on mises.org at the moment. I will see what better sources I can find over the next 24 hours.

7. Future of alternative fuels uncertain: Again, burden of proof. I can't find any definitive sources telling me of the certain future of alternative fuels.

Most importantly though is that what I am saying allows for uncertainty. What I am saying is that any source of change for future prices is so open to uncertainty that any future prediction has no factual basis, and that is all I am saying. When you say $5 in the next 5 years you are telling me you have a good gauge on how the all the factors that effect supply and demand will turn out, as you are making definite claims. On top of that you are claiming that you know how much effect these factors will have on price within a very close range. All I am saying is that I don't know much, I just know enough to know how ignorant I am.

How can you not understand the difference. I am claiming how little I know, by claiming everything I know is subject to changes neither I, or anybody else, can predict. You are claiming that you can predict them. I am not dealing in definites, and you are.

Was my language simple enough this time?

A small thought experiment by the way. Go on to Wikipedia, and in the petrol prices article write a small section about how it is quite likely that fuel prices will be over $5 in the next 5 years and see how long it stays unchallenged as falsifiable fact, or even as substantiated by rationale.

Found a pic of Jayar arguing just then.

lmao

I agree with all the other things you've said except this.

We do know what this is and we do know it is enormous. The demand for oil and oil based products is going to continue to rise in China and Africa until it at least meets the current Western world standards.

It's not scientific, it's economic, and it's a proven thing already - from the massive rise in the demand from cars in China to the actual rise in oil usage in Africa - all of these are indicators which are used to determine oil price and futures oil price.

keep it on topic guys.

this is not a thread about oil.

It is about the housing market, and we're discussing economic conditions which can impact, influence or change the Australian property market.

I think this thread is very on-topic. Possibly the best thread on the entire board right now. IMO.

fair call. it is a very good thread.

though i can't recall the last time the housing market was actually mentioned in relation to oil...

Actually, if you're smart, you will buy near a major shopping metropolis.

Easy access to food, transport and education means less driving.

And, if you're working from home more, no need for long commutes to the CBD.

So I don't subscribe to your theory, even though it is a valid point of view.

I am loving this thread at the moment! 

Hopefully Jayar logs on sometime today.

**Giggles**

no offence man, but what the hell did your previous post have to do with anything i said?

You try and take the piss with some lame-arse comment about green-left (maybe its something youve read, but not me) and then try and walk away from your own statement that went along the lines of oil prices being affected in the same way as everything else - which we both agree it clearly isnt. no need to try and sound like such a patronising bastard!

sheesh





hardy har har josh


food for thought though - major shopping metropolis style developments are surrounded by seas of car parks and are largely an development from post WW2, ie rise of the car. less customers driving there, less stuff being trucked in there regularly (or at far higher costs) mean that those shopping centres might be quite different to how they are today?

and on the last line thanks rob, im glad you have the social skills to disagree with me without trying to insult my intelligence

I just read the whole Jayar vs Pseudo Coup (is this Azrael, or someone else??) argument, and I have to agree with Noddy's posting of a picture of a broken record.

Julian, love your passion and enthusiasm for everything left-of-centre mate, but your argument has been suitably squashed in this instance.

U both need to get over it and STFU!!!
This used to be an interesting thread... def now a no go zone me.

It's a nice and lovely idea, but tell me, what will happen to the city? If all the city people were allowed to work from home, what would become of the town of Adelaide?

Shopping in the city centre already suffered greatly from extended opening hours in the suburbs, so what will happen to all the businesses that rely on people buying lunches, buying coffee, buying beer after work, shopping for clothes? What happens to the museum, library, art gallery and convention centre and the people they employ?

Looking beyond Adelaide, what about other cities? Highrises will no longer need cleaners. Construction workers will no longer be required. Structural Architects will be out of a job. Civil Engineering will be wiped out too - who needs tunnels and bridges and plazas when everyone lives at home? And I'm sure you can think of many other things that will be greatly effected by that kind of change.

There are too many people with too much vested interest and money in keeping things the way they are. There are too many economic indicators that rely on city specific industry to change anything on a large scale. If the underlying mechanics of capitalism change then maybe it will be workable, but I don't think it will be happening in our lifetime to any great degree that will have an impact on the price of housing in relation to oil.

I don't subscribe to that theory either, I think you're reaching for something that really isn't there with that one. The future of online shopping may be here, but is no means in wide use, and probably won't be for some time.

People enjoy leaving their houses. People enjoy consuming. People enjoy touching and smelling and seeing and hearing.

Therefore, the 'shop', in it's traditional sense, will live on for at least my lifetime. Online shopping has been around 10 years, and only now is it starting to get more use, what with Gen Y being so tech-savvy.

My great grandkids might not experience Marion Shopping Centre how I did, but I'll be long dead from narcissim and a stroke by then, so it won't matter to me

fair enough, this is all one person's analysis vs anothers, so its a bit pointless to argue about it.
housing and urban design are fields ive studied at tertiary level and now work in, so its not exactly something i have no idea about! thanks az

Fuck the burbs and leaf blowers on a sunday morning
walking distance from the city FTW


*backs away from thread with tail between legs*

I think you have been reading some of Julian's leftist pamphlets.

Why is it you green-left hippies always take scenarios and situations to the furthest extreme imaginable? Why are you so 'glass-half-empty'?

Take a pinch of what I said, and apply it to today's economics. Forget everyone else, just focus on you. The best investments are by the sea, or as near as possible to major shopping centres. Food brings people. People need education and transport.

For the next 50 years, this is how it will be. In 2090, when cloud computing and online shopping dominate, and we're all jacked in organically to the info-superhighway, then you still might want to buy near a shopping centre, as that's where the schools and transport are!

Oh wait, we'll all be learning online with Wikipedia and riding bikes by then

oh for gods sake pop-n-fresh, drop it already!
sure, everything is going to be dandy forever, and petrol will go back down to under $1 a litre before the end of the year, and online shopping will delivery wristies to our front door.





i thought good investment was all about risk assessment? wasnt that how this discussion all began???

But you didn't say that. Why do all you selfish "rightwingers" constantly change terms of reference when people point out the flaws in your arguments?

You said:


Which won't happen because of the reasons I outlined above, not now, not in the next 50 years.

So go shove your half assed attempts to argue your pathetic, moronic and stupid ideas by deflecting the issue onto left and right up your pink shirt wearing boyfriends arse.

 

 

Ah, if only you lefties were running the country.

Oh wait...you are

 

yeah big kevs favourite cologne is patchouli


see you at the next IPA global-overthrow conference eh rob!

Seriously Rob, I think you've put so much shit in your ears over the years it's starting to come out your mouth and fingers.

This thread needs more Keyser!!!

nah- we need at least one thread where he hasn't posted a pic of himself

Can we all stick to debating without personal insults? It doesn't help...


You're right that that's where they've originated from, but I think that increasing fuel costs will just mean that more of these will spring up (look around Adelaide and you'll see there are at least a dozen of them already). The rising fuel costs won't hurt these shopping centres at all. Look at the ring of suburbs around Marion shopping centre. There are a ton of old housing trust places getting bought up and redeveloped. The value of land around these shopping centres will go up because people around them will want to do everything there. They won't even go into the CBD. This becomes even more accurate when you look at the major shopping centres that are 10Km+ from the CBD. Why would people bother with the CBD when they can do everything they need at the (relatively) local mega-mall.


The CBD is always going to be the CBD, and people are still going to need to work there. People taking their shopping trips outside of town doesn't mean commercial offices are going to go with them.


I think Rob was going a bit far in saying that everyone's going to be working from home. All of the above will still be required especially with the economy growing the way it is. It's just that people's work arrangements are changing...


They only just got in... They've hardly proven anything yet in relation to economic policies. Wait awhile before you start having a cry.

sure does

i thankfully keep catching myself before i hit 'post' but i swear the 'c' the 'u', the 'n' and the 't' keys are getting worn out on my keyboard today

 

Oliver's common sense approach prevails. He just articulates his message without the condescending tones that I inflect

FunkyJ - Mate, you're gonna end up having a stroke like Kurko if you let me get to you too much mate. Have half a white valium, and a lie down in a darkened room with a damp cloth on your forehead. Relax.

Jayar - Not sure what a 'gloabl overthrow' conference is, but it sounds decidedly left-of-centre. I'd rather spoonfeed myself anthrax.

Thanks for thinking of me though mate

FFS What I wanna know is- dont any of you people have jobs?

If you are so interested in the economy and the world around us.... stop posting on AM and start being proactive!

 

Its all nice and well having these strong opinions, but if you dont ever put them to good use by actually being proactive then theres no point having them.

Posting them up on AM isnt going to change the world.

You guys should go join a political party or something.

**Waits to get drilled**

its something you jew-eating neo-cons put on that the rest of us know as a 'party'

You have quite a post count there, Erika.

Shuddup you 


Plus Im at lunch 

However, my point is: Its all nice and well having these strong opinions, but if you dont ever put them to good use by actually being proactive then theres no point having them.

I can happily stand on my soapbox and back up my rants and opinions, as I am living the property dream in full living colour.

keyser


but when you do, you get called a green-left social alliance hippy by teh likes of rob and azrael!



get back to work bitch, my taxes are paying your salary

ahahaha 

ok ginga minge 

Anyway back on topic here is reading on .....da da da FINANCIAL DOOOOOM!

http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,25479,23758574-5016110,00.html

Harsh.

But fair.

I work for myself so I'm only wasting my own time and it means I earn less.

Whose time are you wasting and who is paying your wages?

By the way have you noticed the title of this forum area?

I am being proactive.

I got friends in the Armed forces. I've got a few mates in the police force - both federal and local.

All I need is to find a little house in Canberra...

But with housing prices these days I've already blown the budget...

Going to stage a pseudo coup?

Im at lunch goddamn it!  

Yes, I have seen the title of the forum. However, I do believe if people have such strong opinions on a topic, they can use it for better purposes rather than only posting it on AM....

Good minds are valuable resources! Get involved with their communities, be proactive within local politics out in the real world.

Anyway - dont worry about me, lets get back on topic. Its just something I have observed.

Hmm re: the talk about cbd apartments... I remember reading a year or two back an article about the lack of renters in innercity melbourne (ie the docklands) for thos emassive places, seems now that investment in them was wise!!

Only 3 in 1000 apartments available for rent in cbd melbourne

I agree that it is going to be a large issue for demand J, all I meant is that it is going to be very hard to put a quantifiable number on its effect. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word scientific, but I just meant by using falsifiable data and conclusions.

1. Of all the things I have said the Socialist Alliance call was the most obviously ad hominem dig, and has nothing to do with the subject being discussed afterwards. Why is it still the opening comment of everyone of your responses?

2. I never backed away from my comment that oil prices are effected predominantly by inflation, tax and supply and demand. I have just been pointing out how technical an area supply and demand is.

3. Hug, you Marxist cunt?

Personally, I think 'affected' would be a more suitable word.

 Epic thread.

affected

1. Disposed or conditioned to the extent indicated by the modifying adverb

a. With reference to bodily condition or disposition. Obs.
  ill-affected indisposed.

b. With reference to the mind.

 2. a. Having a disposition or inclination of any kind (without modifying adverb); influenced by emotion.

b. Having a favourable affection or inclination; favourably disposed or inclined; attached, partial (to). Cf. DISAFFECTED adj. Obs.

 c. Chiefly of a person: loved, beloved.

3. a. Assumed or displayed artificially; put on for effect; artificial, stilted, ‘got up’.

  b. Assumed falsely or in outward appearance; pretended, simulated.

 c. Of a person: full of affectation; artificial in manner, pretentious; assuming airs.

 {dag}4. That is sought after or aimed at; desired.

{dag}5. Fondly held, cherished; entertained by choice, intentional.


I disagree.

  Where did you find that?

 LMFAO

I take no responsibility for the fucking insane geeky-motherfucking-ness of this website:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/e_to_the_pi_minus_pi.png

Wow, that is all new levels of geeky.

In economics 101 its "effect".... NOT affect!

Vote one for "effect"!

 

 


awww shucks. sure you thatcherite twat



ps

i also hate the overuse of latin 
unless its for abbreviations, etc, eg and ie... meh, et al ad infinitum nb viz a viz

The love in this thread is great to see.

Epic, indeed.

I said that it would be more suitable to use the word affected. Not that it was completely wrong to use the word effected.


affect

Function:
transitive verb
Etymology:
Middle English, from affectus, past participle of afficere
Date:
15th century
: to produce an effect upon: as a: to produce a material influence upon or alteration in <paralysis affected his limbs> b: to act upon (as a person or a person's mind or feelings) so as to effect a response


Considering you have not factored in OPEC, profit margins etc you would be wrong in saying that it was only those three variables which effected oil prices.

Remember this thread guys?
 

Anyone bought a house lately? Or going to buy a house soon?

does owning a piece of land that you are going to build a house on count?

Sorry, just realised my last post didn't really direct to the site in question. Try this:

http://xkcd.com/


I take no responsibility.

Does 2000 count as lately?

Jules - Yes. Where did you buy it?

Josh - Yes. As the property market cycles every 7 years or so, it would be interesting to know how much the value of your property has grown, how much you paid and which area it is in.

I bought last October - cant believe its been that long!

Was it that long ago?

Seems like only yesterday!

Building on my block should start in a couple of weeks, so glad Im building rather than buying established (I believe Chris has touched on this).  Although it will be a lot more laborious than buying established it will be an interesting process to go through.  Block is 5mins from the city, Ridleyton

Its in St Peters, the College Park/Womad corner zone.
I didnt buy it as such. Its a shitbox house on 1050m2, jointly owned by 3 of us, thats been in the family for 30 years (as an investment) and we're going to subdivide and build 2 houses on it... though to actually live in, not as an investment, meaning we've designed it to our own needs and taste and not something cheap cutting corners to get a big profit on an immediate sale. we have to be careful not to under capitalise though because the value of the land is worth so much now, so we're going to be paying off a sligtly higher mortagage than we'd prefer to.

Cant knock the location though, its fucking awesome. Perfect for a summer walk home during the festival period.

I've been looking into it.

There are a few apartments going up around work, and they offer them really cheap for the location.

I'm a bit dubious to why they're selling apartments for 250K so close to the City, St Kilda and Chapel St, and it's quite possible I read the sign wrong, but it's certainly got me interested.

it has close to tripled i believe.

bought my house in Mile End about 1.5 years ago. Lived in if or a year renting it before buying it from the landlord for a pretty good price. Moving to Melbourne for work so its being rented at at the moment.

has appreciated quite a bit already from what i have seen sell in the area

Paid $170K in Nailsworth. A similar house on our street with no extension, salt damp & rusted roof (we've had all that replaced since buying) has an asking price in the high 500's at the moment. Two years ago a house 2 down from ours was bought purely for land value (the house was unlivable and was promptly demolished) which was the same size block as ours sold for just under $400K.

So I guess it's safe to say ours has at least tripled if not considerably more in that time.

Those of you who have bought and have a big mortgage, are you even able to pay it off or are you just servicing the debt and working on the fact that your purchases are going to increase in value?

Not expecting everyone to want to share this information - but just wondering in case anyone doesn't mind.

My intention is to never pay off any mortgage on any of the properties I own. I intend to grow wealth through multiple streams of income and leverage the equity.

Not really inline with the traditional 'Aussie working family' line of thinking, but then again, I am not your typical 'Aussie working family'.

But if you can afford to pay off the mortgage (maybe not now but in the next few decades) what reason is there not to? By sitting on a huge mortgage when you can afford to pay it off you're just contributing to the profits of banks. There's also the possibility that interest rates budge a little higher than what they already are now - which is just going to cost you even more.

Saying 'never' with financial decisions when you're in your 20's probably isn't too wise anyway in my opinion.

I would be so scared of going bankrupt if I did that

Why not take that money that your pouring into a mortagage and invest it some more, say in shares or other developments? Then you build more valuable assets that appreciate and you increase your wealth.

What if the interest rates go down? I have left my rates variable as I want them to be flexible with econominic conditions.

Imagine being a homeowner who locked in three years ago at 7%. Now they are coming out of the fixed period at 9% (or more), with more rises on the cards. At $250k, it's not such a big deal, but at $500k, that's a big financial pill to swallow. You're essentially stuck between a rock and a hard place- fix again and be caught short when the rates go back down, or leave it variable and take the hit with the short term rises.

You're right, 'never' is a bit too final, considering I am about a third the way through my life.

But, I do believe in being flexible, and that sitting in the same house for 30 years and pay it off bit by bit is not the best way to go about securing yourr independent financial freedom.

I am trying to set it up so that when I am 40, I can be independently wealthy. That means I can wake up in the morning, and not rely on gainful employment to support my lifestyle.

You gotta shoot for the stars mate, even if you only ever hit the moon...

Why do you think you would go bankrupt?

I am sure your pretentious high-flying lawyer neighbours are going to LOVE the chicken coup and veggie patch

Top spot though, you will do very well there. I am jealous.

Is it arranged through a family trust?

what do you class as a big mortgage?

Fair enough Rob. If you're confident you can proceed the way you want that is great. Good luck with it. I guess it's all about what you want from your life. If you want to live so comfortably at 40 (not very far away really) that you don't have to have 'gainful' employment (I'm not really sure what this means actually) then that's a personal decision regardless of how you manage your finances.

How many of you who have bought places also have investments in other (non residential real estate) areas?


Depends how much you bought for. This is a personal view of course but I'd say anything over 75% of what you bought is 'big'. It's about proportions not exact figures in my opinion.

I dunno, juggling all of these properties and not actually paying the actual mortgage (principal)... hmm I dunno. The idea scares me if the country was to go into a bit of a recession.

If interest rates go up, people start selling their investments then the market would be flooded with properties. Value decreases. And then what happens if you cant keep up the mortgage? I would hate to own something then have to sell it at less of a price than what I originally paid.

Im not all that educated on the concept of it though so I dont know all that much about it. I am pretty sure thats the way alot of millionaires get rich.

I have a girlfriend who is a conveyancer and she owns over 5 properties. She makes sure that her rents cover her loans though. At most she pays $50 bucks out of her wage a week to contribute to the loans. I couldnt believe it when she told me.

I cant speak for everyone but I would say that majority of people would have no more than a 5-10% deposit at best these days. Correct me if I am wrong???

I borrowed 100% on my first property a few years ago.

Yeah, it's easy to borrow and a lot of people are buying places and only putting down a tiny chunk of cash deposit (if anything like in your case). I still think anything under 25% is small though. That's up to each individual anyway...

spot on mate.

it's very hard to save 25% of your loan if you are purchasing a property for 350+ for example. that's $87500 you'd need to have to save.

ali and i are lucky enough if we are allowed to build to have have well over 25%, but our circumstances aren't like the average home buyer.

Most people would take years to save up that kind of money. I earn good money and would struggle to save anything near that kind of cash aswell a sustain some kind of life. You also can do yourself harm as the longer you are not in the game the harder and more expensive it is to get in.

Yeah well it's a lot easier for me to say 25% now since I haven't even considered buying anything anytime for years... You're probably right chris in that I'll come back years down the track and end up borrowing as much as anyone else.

i think i read that wrong (carry on)

do you live at home still oli?

if so, save while you can.

ali and i are moving back into her folks house early next year in order to get the savings we feel we need to build, without having to borrow too much that it detract's from still having a life in the future.

worked out that we can save easily $500 a week from home.

really not looking at borrowing any more than $200k. will be pretty disappointed in ourselves if we do.

maka: Hit reply before you changed your post but to answer anyway: 10 years ago I was 14 and my source of income was pocket money. 5 years ago I was working in a volunteer type position teaching in Europe. Since the end of last year I was a tertiary student. This is the first year where I've worked full time.

So, to answer your question: I haven't been saving at all.

Chris: yes I do. I know I could save (and probably quite a lot at the moment because my business is doing well) but honestly, I don't care about buying at the moment. I want to spend a lot more time seeing the world before I even consider 'settling down'. I might not even end up living in Adelaide, but moving around European cities for years in which case renting would be a far wiser option.

mate you should be able to build a pretty special house for that kind of coin... Especially if you have the land stiched up already. Small sacrifice for a pretty decent return if you can put away that sort of money nice one. My savings plan just went out the window when I decided to rent in Victoria

yeah, it's not so much just the house that we need to incorporate into those figures though mate. we also have to get sewer/gas connected, water mains etc etc. plus we need to do a bit to ali's folks land too.

still though, you are right, we are in a very good position if all goes to plan.

you're doing the right thing too by renting your property here out while you are interstate too. you have the benefit of your tenants: A- keeping your house in order B- having someone pay your mortgage off for you, and C- reaping the benefits through the increase in value your house will achieve.


oli, fair enough mate. i wish i still saved more when i had the chance is all.

planning on doing the travelling once we've set ourselves up here first.

nothing could be further from the truth with that description.

We personally know 90% of the people living in the street, and the ones either side very well - to the point of exchanging said veggies and fruit with their baked goods, fruit and home-brewed beer!  and they even have a yearly christmas party/bbq for the whole street at someones house on rotation. its our turn for christmas 2009 when hopefully we'll be back in by then.

its almost like living on bloody ramsay street sometimes.

I'm not trying to say that you won't manage to do the travelling afterwards but I've heard of plenty of people who are 3 to 10 years older than I am who regret doing what you're doing. They had the view when they bought properties (before travelling) that they'd do what you're suggesting then they realise straight afterwards that they won't manage it financially, or get tied down with relationships/children/whatever else!

I've done a fair bit of travelling already compared to Aussies my age, in particular in Europe (I've been 8 or 9 times now and I'm 24) and like I mentioned earlier I intend to do more before 'settling down'. I've had people say "I wish I did that at your age" many times...

people always say shit like that. I had a house when I was 19 sold it when I was 23 went travelling for 2 years came back bought another house. You can do both if you want it bad enough. Most people that say "I wish i did that" will never do anything because of those 5 words....

Good point. Many people are probably just not trying hard enough I guess. Or don't want it (the travelling) bad enough to sacrifice a bit to make it work out...

Without knowing much about you Oli thats shiteloads of Europe travel for someone who only finished uni 12 months ago (as you mentioned) and is 24. 


(lucky!)

Sounds positively horrible. If I was your neighbour, I would build an 8ft high wall and never say hello to you.

Bloody lefties, always trying to be part of a 'community' and shit. What is wrong with you people?!

Yes I admit I am very lucky. It helps to have a German Mum who was the only person from her side of the family to migrate here. That means I have a good reason to go back often to see family... Having EU citizenship also helps because it means I can easily travel into and around pretty much all of Europe as well as work there with minimal drama and no real restrictions.

@ Rob. I reckon if I was living in a house with Rob on one side and Jayar on the other I could get along with both of you, because it seems my opinion on many matters is about half way between you guys.

Maka, you're a bit of a different case I think. Doing it at 19, you weren't really looking to start a family at that point. It was easy for you to buy, sell, and buy again because of your age and your independent lifestyle.

Oli has a point by saying that people at Chris and Ali's age, who are in a long term relationship, and might be looking to start a family in the house they buy, may find it hard to go for extended periods of travel with large mortgage committments.

However, nothing is impossible. Just horses for courses, I guess.

Doing it at 19 really is pretty uncommon as well I think.

I think I was sleeping till noon every day at 19!

Big thing to do, hats off to him.

I was doing it well before 19, innit!

bought my first house when i was about 22. was in gawler south on around half an acre. sold it a year later and made around $55000 profit...that is my only real estate story, really wish we didn't sell it though but i was having troubles with the lady.

hell yeah.
i cant imagine doing any serious travel for sometime now that the family thing has begun, let alone owning a house. travelling through tasmania was hard enough!

but then i prefer to go travelling/backpacking for months at a time, so that is harder when youve got a mortgage, family etc.



Rob - youre forgetting that we lefties would conspire to prevent you moving into our area.

i will rub your nose in it though - damn my neighbour makes a fine selection of homebrews! eh, and to think all i had to get it was to give him some lemons that grew by themselves and i didnt need

I would love to live in St Peters/College Park. Maybe one day

Wow, swapping rotting fruit for a poorly-made substitute for beer. Sounds like utopia!

 

I wasnt sleeping....

if anything I was raving out hard at 19! Rave on through Thursday to Sunday

Thats was the best year of my life that was. 

OH yeh.

no no, you'd never be good at marketing


swapping fresh local organic produce for lovingly crafted, hand made beer!

Yet more evidence you live in a fantasy land of puppy dogs and fluffy clouds

i completely agree with where oli is coming from.

again though. we have special circumstances, and we won't have too much of a mortgage to worry about at all. that's why we KNOW we can manage it in the future. we won't have the worry of a huge mortgage. it will be sizeable, but atm, it costs us the same in rent as it would to own (on a weekly basis).

if we can't build, then the whole plan is out the window and renting is looking like it will be the go for a long long time.

I am going to Darwin this weekend for work.

I am going to scope out the property situation up there, see what's what.

Fairly sure Darwin is (as per Perth) quite overinflated due to primary industries, i wouldnt bother. 

yep, it's more expensive to live up there than it is here. that's for sure. for some pretty shitty places too.

kick arse

just got word that there was only ONE representation from a nearby resident re our planning application - and it was in favour!
apparently that just never happens, esp in St Peters... So it goes up to the council development assessement panel (councillors) next month.
fingers crossed

that is absolutely awesome news julian. well done. just a matter of time now.

my friend is nicknamed The Prince of Palmerston cause he n his siblings basically own and run all teh developments in Palmerston, as well as some areas around Darwin city. Pretty nuts, he's definitely made his fortune aged 27! bastard. want me to suss out some peopel to talk to? his name is Damien Moriarty, anyways, I think his face is on a few billboards for Shamrock Homes.

not quite unfort

the DAP on many councils arent exactly the most logical (such is a shortcoming of local government democracy where butchers, bakers and candlestick makers are all of a sudden the arbiters of good taste on the built environment)

still, its looking positive, and we know the head of planning loves the design... he's definitely going in to bat for us.

you'll be fine mate.

Congrats Jules

So Jayar, got any rooms planned to look anything like these?

  i like the fireman pole for an office.

mine = not quite

but it will have a laundry chute in the walk-in-robe that drops into the laundry basket hidden inside the cabinets on the floor below

Hmm, that's not so interesting.

What about getting some furniture from here?

So take-up at auctions are down.

Lots of properties getting passed in. Is the buying craze over?

Is the Adelaide market reaching a plateau?

Good time to buy.

Pity I have no money...

im hoping that the slump continues for a while yet - it means that i'll get a more competitive tender for our house building.

I am hoping there is another rate hike soon, because I am considering buying a house if I get this job I am going for, and if there was a hike in the near future there would be even more opportunity for bargain buys.

I will be moving into my beachside property in a few months. I am looking forward to it.

Does anyone know a good tiler? I need to re-do my bathroom, and I'll be fucked if I am going to tile it myself.

even the worst professional tiler will do a much better job than you will, trust me.

with that sort of thing you're much better off getting it done properly.

I never claimed to be good at tiling, hence my request for recommendations for a professional.

Also, if anyone knows how to install a kitchen, let me know. I can do the prep work, but fucked if I am going to hang cupboards etc

Even the worst professional kitchen installer will do a much better job than you will, trust me.

With that sort of thing you're much better off getting it done properly.



Oh wait...

you would be amazed at how many people actually believe they can do something and then go ahead and fuck it up beyond belief.

so many dodgy diy's out there - i am living in one - even the tradies are pretty shit a lot of the time due to quotations and time restraints.

So what do you suggest I do? Rub a lamp and ask a genie for a new kitchen, properly installed?

Are you helping or hurting Kurko? Helping or hurting?

I start my new job at Reece Bathroom life in 3 weeks. Maybe by the time you need some stuff done i will have a few contacts in that area that mightbe able to help. If you need a flash bath or shower and some nice fittings then im your man. Dont expect no discount as we have cheap prices and i need to make budget for bonus

Me and the GF are thinking of buying a little flat or Villa. I have NFI about this stuff but with very little deposit I can borrow 100% now yeah? Will I find anything for around 300k within 5kms of either Norwood or Hilton. Thinking Torrensville, Mile End, Prospect sorta area.

Guy came today to design our new kitchen. We're getting it done by Kitchen Depot as we may only be in our place for a few more months before renting it out so only wanted to do it on the cheap.  Should be done in 14 days. Sweeet! Our kitchen at the moment is a piece of poo and very poorly set up so I can't wait! 

ooh new kitchens are hawt!!!

you mean like that time at josh's place???

i asked him if he had any work done to his house and he said no. he fucked up.

having said that, it was the first time i had set foot into a house environment, and i shouldn't have been there in the first place. people who do THAT work for a living still can do a very terrible job.

ooh checkit:

http://www.firsthomesaver.com.au/facts/how-does-it-work

Expect to be paying a bit in that area.

My gf just bought a villa in mile end just off of south road for half a mill. Its not cheap around there.

You might be lucky and get a flat for 300k around there though Benzaah.

you might find something for 300 k as a flat but why buy a flat for 300 k in mile end, when you can buy a house a little bit further down the road (like findon etc) for the same price?

Quality of life and all that jazz

Not too sure if you want to loan 300k 100% either. I mean, my mortgage is a lower than that and my partner and I combined make good money (my partner can pay the mortgage and still have money left over to live a good life just on his own wage) - but we wouldnt want to pay a mortgage that high.

I dont know how much money you are on Benzaah (and its none of my business really), but you may be heading for struggle town with a mortgage that high. Are you prepared to pay around 2000 a month for the next 30 years? what happens if your missus gets pregnant or something? Or you lose a job? then you are on only one income and you wont afford to eat.

I reckon play it safe dude hey. Save a deposit first. Its your first home so you want to enjoy it without stressing too much.

Or you could even buy something a lil further out? bigger and rent a room out in the house for some extra dosh to help cover the bills. We considered that, but we dont need to.

I guess its not my business though but just giving some friendly advice

WOOHOO! Who wants to start saving for a druglab with me???

*stupidest clause ever*

What better way for criminals to launder money? Invest in their friends house, so when the house is bought they just sell it off and pocket the cash. The cash is clean and legitimate.

If some idiot on the net can read this and think this (I'm referring to me here), imagine what corrupt politicians/police or terrorists or an organised crime syndicate do with this kind of clause?

And don't say the government have things in place to stop this - I know someone who bought a house with the first homeloan grant years ago and never actually lived in the house but rented it out instead. Sure, they could have gone to jail if they were caught, but they weren't, and these people weren't exactly smart about it either.

I read that simply meaning the account can gift money from other people although the people who put the money in don't get the same tax perks as the individual who has the account.  It's pretty common for peoples parents or friends to help them out with the deposit for a house so why not have a clause so they can do it legitimately? 

Julian's left wing paranoia makes him cautious about crazy 'small government' hallmarks such as people having the freedom to do what they like with their own money. He is afraid such measures will lead to the rising of a secret society of Ayn Rand and Leo Strauss praising Reaganites to take over the world. Ironically, he covers his tracks by spewing oddly right wing sounding nonsense about drug money. It's not worth trying to rationalise with him.

well it's all looking good for ali and i to build as well.

pretty much just have to alter our house plans a little to make the council happy. so very much looking forward to having a brand new house with very little debt in comparison to most.

really does help us as we don't earn heaps as is.

who are you dealing with at the council chris?

let me know if you need my bro in laws number

Congratulations guys! the dream is starting to become a reality!!!

Good news champ!

that is a very very good question ser. at the moment we aren't really dealing with anybody in particular as we haven't tried for the full approval as yet.

what's your brother in law's name? would definitely come in handy!


thankyou too guys. i'm so very happy about all of this right now.

nice work chris. bet you're stoked.


house is off the cards for me now. liquidity, flexibility, business experience and mining experience are of more importance in the short to medium term.

nothing better than owning your own home, really miss that feeling...congrats chris

After an 11th hour scare (one of the fuckwit councillors on the Development Assessment Panel wanted to have the council staff amend their report that recommended approval to be changed to recommended for refusal) our house design was approved last night 7 votes to 1 - i actually got commended by several of the DAP members for the quality of design and the level of work we had gone to in order to design something modern but sympathetic to the old houses, limit overshadowing, exemplary ecological design, something the neighbours were happy with etc etc etc.

Its been a long process getting to this point, so now the guess work is gone and its just full steam ahead to document it and get it built... Am hoping we'll be in by xmas 2009! And if we are, let me tell you we'll be throwing the biggest damn housewarming!!

How long is it actually going to take to build?

probably in the order of 9 months... but it needs to now be documented to a level of detail suitable to get building rules approval (seperate to planning approval) and then for a builder to be able to price it and build it. that in itself will take months.

Congrats on the approval.
Who's doing your structural documentation???

probably the engineer we share a building with and work with on a lot of jobs... i know the director well, hopefully get some mates rates

Congrats mate.

Look forward to the housewarming. I bet you have got all kinds of cool hippie shit that I can steal and sell to other hippies.

Dude I'm not a financial guru and financially I'm completely impotent (is that enough disclaimer Oli or do I need to include that my advice is soooo bad I'm currently unemployed and my bank account is a few thousand less than my debt!!!) but if you cats cant buy a set of golf clubs(this is a really easy thing to share, I mean shit even if you play against each other you still dont need a full set!) without a hiccup then why would you even consider going in for 100G?

Good enough.

Dunno if anyone caught it, but casa de Roost was featured on building ideas last saturday. Only room they didnt show was the dj room 

yeah i forgot to watch it damnit!

i think tina is getting a copy of it

big question.

definitely would get some advice from a solicitor before you decide to do anything. it can work, but with how you've made your brother out to sound, I wouldn't do it. Not a good start if you're not sure about others on the loan to begin with just quietly.

Well it looks like our invest property quest may be over. My olds are going to be subdividing their block, which means that most likely scenario we'll get a 400 -500 m2 block of land to build our investment on 

They're going to talk to the council and surveyors and what not this week some stage.

So now we play the waiting game

 

yeah i missed it too... 

it'll be on the web soon anyway!  i looked last night!

so depressing looking at the mortgage calculators and seeing that you could end up paying 700000+ on a 300000 loan

Haha hell yeah. How awesome would it be being a lender though??

Pretty awesome, which is why so many people invest in bank shares.

I think you should be able to buy a house with you super! Equally as good an investment in your future!

If everyone takes it up and the arse falls out of our property market then the government will go broke.  Not a good idea to put all of your countries eggs in one basket

Just one of the many reasons it wouldn't work

pretty sure you used to be able to do this but the redraw facilities on peeps loans meant they were able to avoid tax by paying their whole wage on house then redrawing.  I know a few people who manage their own super fund and have bought houses with it. (Conditions apply obviously)

Buying a house is something everyone has to do at some stage so buying a house is almost more important than setting yourself up financially for your later years.(imo). 

I also feel that people should be caped on the number of properties they can own.

Buying property is def not something that everyone HAS to do. Why do I have to buy property, what is wrong with me choosing to rent as long as I possibly can???
And why do you feel people should be capped??? Who would this benefit, the owners, purchasers or renters???

Real aussies own a home at some stage in their life! </sarcasm>

I feel this to be an incredibly stupid comment.
What is your reasoning behind this?!

?

Because tall poppy syndrome is alive and well in Australia?

Fair call on the rent. I hadn't actually considered that people may want to rent for life I guess when you do the sums it aint so bad.

As for capping the amounts of properties you own, 

I don't object to people wanting to better themselves or their financial situation unless its at the detriment to others and in this case I think it is. 
I guess what I should have said at the start is that buying a home is something that every Australian should be able to do in their life(If they so choose).  I think if the number of properties an individual can own is capped(no idea at what level) then house prices will come down, which I know is really bad for all you peeps who bought up big for the last twenty years but it will (i feel) bring house and land prices to a far more grounded and unwavering value over time.

So by that logic shouldn't we just become a socialist country, since anyone's higher wealth must be at the expense of others (following the basic capitalist supply and demand theory, which is what you seem to be saying is pushing and keeping prices up)?

If anything its the mass of people who borrow beyond their means to buy a place in the first place who are pushing prices up. They are the main group of buyers after all, people buying a second home are not the majority.

not ALL wealth is gained at the expense of others.
Those mass of people borrowing sooooo much to buy are(and I know this isn't everyone) doing so because, as I said before everyone should be able to buy a house and people look around and see all the good ones getting snapped up(mainly by that minority you spoke of).  Propaganda media combined and people are too scared not to buy.

 

  Indeed.


False dichotomy. Buying a house and setting yourself up financially are not in competition with one another, and in fact doing A is a commonly accepted way of achieving B sometimes.


  It hurts too much. This is possibly the most stultifyingly stupid thing I have ever read, and I have spent some of this week reading the comments sections at Stormfront and Majority Rights. I can't fathom you not being an elaborate gimmick. It is just too difficult for a normal person to land on the polar opposite of correct so often.

If you just guessed at everything there would obviously be a non-zero probability of you being right from time to time; why don't you try that? I suggest that from now on you gather all possible avenues of argument for an idea, or all conclusions/answers to a question, stick them on a dartboard, blind fold yourself, and just go nuts with a dart until you hit your new philosophy. This way you can find learning fun, and every now and then you may chance upon a sensible conclusion.

Either way, please leave economics alone, or read a book. For the sake of my sanity, I am happy to send you a PDF copy of a solid textbook, if you like.


“It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”
   -Murray N. Rothbard

I dont have a loud and vociferous opinion especially not on economics which is why I choose to post my comments on a board of music listeners rather than economics experts.  I'm prepared to be wrong and enjoy to be pointed in the right direction but if its purely a difference of opinion for what is best for me/the country/the world then I'm sorry I dont agree.  It is after all only an opinion and something to discuss.  Please tell me why this is quite obviously inncorrect? Why is it that when a country limits the amount of property an individual can own that it arrives at a laughable state for the economy? (or at least a face palm for the person who suggestted it)

Also "false dichotomy" why? Why is buying a house not as important as setting yourself for the later years and not simply part of it?

edit: i can see you breaking things atm PC

It is a false dichotomy exactly because buying a house can be part of setting yourself up for life. They aren't mutually exclusive things. One can be considered in achieving the other.

I'd much rather send you a copy of Mankiw's Principles of Economics. It is far easier for me than upbraiding you every time you say something nutty. Suffice to say it would harm everybody. It would do ridiculous amounts of harm to labour and production. The productive industries being where the vast majority of a nations real wealth comes from, that would do huge damage to an economy. The economy is not a zero-sum game; you do not win by defeating the other players. Achievements, in many respects, can (and do) assist other players greatly. I really can't be fucked writing an essay on every piece of flawed logic in that post though.

 
What would you like to cap it at anyway?



  I have to move in a month, and many things aren't coming with me. That has helped.

I don't think the minority of people who own multiple properties (unless they consider their real estate investments as a profession) are the type of people who are going to buy the same places as first home buyers or buyers who are just entering the market.

I think of it like this:
Fred earns 200K a year and already owns a 700K home with a 400K mortgage, he wants to borrow further against his 700K home and buy another property.
Joe earns 50K a year and wants to buy his first home.
Do you really think that the type of properties Fred would be looking for are the type that Joe is after? I don't.


There's nothing "obviously incorrect" about your opinion. The response you're getting is more to do with the fact that such a cap (whether you think it should be 1 or 3 or 5 doesn't really matter) wouldn't work in our economy today. Anyone trying to introduce (or even bring something like it in my view) into the public arena for discussion would be committing public relations/political suicide.

I think people who work hard and smart are perfectly entitled to own as many properties as they want. If that comes at the expense of others then those others should look and say "how can I become like them?" and not "damn those rich people, they are pricing me out of my dream".

Really? As much as I try my hardest to not delve in to the hard facts on this forum, there is some denial of basic laws of economics needed to reach such a conclusion. It has far less to do with a personal belief in the efficacy of freedom and property rights that makes me react to his comments, so much as to how it has a completely different effect on the underclasses than MS seems to believe. It doesn't even have the effect on price he believes... or close to it, for that matter.

I really hope I never feel like that.  Keeping up with the Jones' isn't for me

He's entitled to his view. The laws of economics you seem to be referring to are laws of economics in capitalist economies. There were (and still are to some extent) many countries in which (maybe not by law, but in practical terms) it is/was basically impossible to own more than one home. It's not as if such a system just can't work anywhere, it just can't work here now and in no time in the foreseeable future.

I agree with you with regards to the effect on price having nothing to do with second/third/whatever home buyers "snapping up" properties.


I should have phrased that differently to imply that they should hope to attain the same or more wealth. The whole Jones' thing is more about consumer/lifestyle/superficial things and not wealth in monetary terms I think.

That's why I brought up the tall poppy syndrome thing... In the US the general consensus is that anyone can rise from nothing to become everything, where in Europe the general consensus is that it's much harder to move out of your "class" and make it all that much further in life. Australia is still much closer to the European point of view than the American one, which is a bad thing in my opinion.

I am aware that they can exist, in so much as the inhabitants don't all collapse and die, but it isn't ever a good existence. Do I need to document the plight of the underclasses in those nations? Of any classes? MS posited a view that he felt would lead to an increase in utility for the people; I don't see John Rawls or Jeremy Bentham running to support it.

They aren't laws of capitalist economies, they are laws of economics that just so happen to lead to some of the more positive aspects of a capitalist system.

To be perfectly honest, I am content to watch the inevitable slow decay and leftward shift caused by democracy, but if our nation started instituting rules like that I'd be on the first plane out of here. Obviously I am anti socialism, but those kinds of laws are poor even for socialism, and they are usually followed by the crumbling of a nations economy and mass poverty.

Well then we both agree that such a a cap wouldn't actually help anyone and that the view that MS took is flawed. I agreed with you on all your points from the start regarding how Melvin's argument is flawed, but comparing anything here to Stormfront is just going way over the top. That's all I had a problem with.

Isn't that a character from lost?

yup, it is locke's alias when he leaves the island and ends up in a casket... there is an ep called the life and death of jeremy bentham

there are loads of references to real people, authors and books throughout the series tho

why is that exactly?

they can afford it, and pay extra rates every year for them.

good luck with everything anna! it's a very long process but more than worth it. ali and i are about 75% through with everything now and it's taken 18 months.

Or PC is just making this shit up!!!!
(before you write something about Bentham that was just a joke, I'm sure you are extremely informed about all things you comment on Pseud's)

cause I'm a socialist poppie killer! 

Ok finance heads

whats the best way to tackle this rising interest rate now?

should we be going for a fixed rate now?  i think yes obviously but someone has told me they i should only lock half of it and keep the other half will be variable.

its all a bit confusing

Asked your banker/accountant?

id definitely check with your mortgage broker, i definitely wouldnt make any major financial decisions based upon the posts of the massive...

Precisely

Way too many things to consider, current variable, whats the fixed rate, how long are you fixing for, how many times do you expect rates to rise while its fixed etc etc

Is the fixed rate really going to protect you, is it worth paying the extra interest for the fixed period.

Seek professional advice mate

i will be seeking the professionals advice, but in the meantime i was just interested to see what the rest of you are doing.

turns out you all know dick :P

Which sums up why we all get professional advice.

I've been thinking about this too lately Jules.

This morning they had a guy on Sunrise who said that yes it is likely there will be several rate rises coming soon..but that it may be a bit too late to swap to fixed anyway as the banks were well ahead of us and have already upped their fixed rates. He reckons to stay on variable.

That said, it depends on your own finances..if going to fixed is bearable given the current rates, but where the variable may go is not, then you might want to consider it.

really? the advice of a fellow d'n'b head (who could be a 12 year old girl) isn't enough for you to adjust your financial situation?

There are 12 year old girls on here?

Can you give me a hint as to who they are?

i fixed 70% of my loan a while ago before the fixed rates jumped, maybe you've missed the boat sorry to say.
since i fixed mine the fixed rates at ing have gone up 2%, i fixed it back in april.

Its a hard call Patchy if your going to fix it now at 7.5 or 8% for 3-5 years it may not be your best bet, rates may take 2 years to push back up to 8% and even then may sit around that.
If you can fix it at 6% I'd do it but only if for 3+ years.

imo rates wont bounce up as quick as they come down.

Its all just a guessing game, who really knows exactly what to do.
Even paying for the best advise may not get you the perfect outcome, but they are using their experience and knowledge of finance to help pin point the best for you, thats their jpb after all. I went through all this back in April so hard to know what to do.