Ableton Live DJ Sets

split from: http://www.adelaidemassive.com/index.php?topic=3673.0



ableton live sets are for dj's who can't mix. No skill involved. May as well pre-record your set and play on CDJ's while you fake with vinyl

i disagree

people said the same things about cdjs when they first came out...

sure, you dont have to adjust bpm on the fly but that doesnt mean you still cant do a lot of other interesting things. not having to waste time adjusting the pitch on every mix can free up extra time to do other things, plus you arent just limited to two channels like the traditional turntables.

exhibit a: http://www.adelaidemassive.com/index.php?topic=3365.0

having said that, while there is potential to do a lot more but there is also a lot of potential for people to be lazy... if you are a boring dj and just mix tunes without energy or creativity it will show, regardless of if you are playing vinyl, cdj or in ableton

I still disagree. Part of being a dj is having skill. If you can't beat mix, you shouldn't mix. If you dont' have to adjust bpm, fine, but then you lack skillz. Ok you have extra time to fuck with faders and knobs. woopty doop. You didn't beat mix, so you better be a fuckin interesting dj or ur just wasting my time. imo (not humble) =)

interesting take on DJ'ing - for me, i'm more interested in the vibe created & the final sound of a mix, i personally don't care how someone chooses to get there.

Raiden can beatmatch, and is a very good DJ in any situation - and can produce a tune or two, but his Ableton set blew my mind away. I wouldn't agree with a new DJ skipping straight to Ableton before learning to play on either vinyl or CdJs however, definitely agree you should learn beatmatching.

but if Andy C suddenly started using Ableton - i wouldn't care, as long as he still rocked the party like he does so well.

thats my thoughts on it anyway.

but if Andy C suddenly started using Ableton - i wouldn't care, as long as he still rocked the party like he does so well.

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Interesting arguement, but I'd lose all respect for him if he did.

But maybe that just coz I'm too old, coz I also find paedophile He-man offensive

  my last in this thread

off topic...



depends if they are mixing tracks together using ableton live or doing remixes on the fly imo. there is some awesome stuff being done with live!

if you're just playing pre-recorded finished tunes, then i totally agree the benefit is that you're able to push the envelope in terms of creating blends that wouldn't be physically possible if you had to take the time to beatmatch...

if you're featuring a lot of your own material, and have that broken down into layers in the way that ableton is built for, then it opens up a lot of different possibilities in terms of the live remix.  if you're going to incorporate some other finished tunes in to your set then i don't think you're taking away from the 'legitimacy' of the performance either.

i understand where EVN is coming from but to me what he's describing in terms of 'skillz' are more 'turntablist' skillz than 'DJ' skillz, at least with what seems to be the current definition of the term 'DJ'... I guess you could argue CDJs are more of a 'DJ' think than vinyl because you use compact 'discs', whereas you don't normally describe 12"s as 'discs'

either way, i think once the ableton thing is more widely adopted and people hear the possibilites, we may start to find what is possible with two turntables becomes rather boring in comparison...

that said, re: the minimal mix, i prefer styles that don't have to be triple dropped before it starts to sound like music

yeh I have a beef with it, but I reckon there is room to be more creative wit it...
Like scratch over the top or drop samples... just get busy, push the envelope

What i mean is for the time your not cueing up a record do something else, make it your own. make
it unique...Dont just stand there and play a pre recorded set...anyone can do that IMO
But then again anyone can mix??? man Ive so lost my point....

i reckon it could be cool, again for pushing the envelope and doing shit that just couldnt be done on a pair of turntables. i liked the idea of being able to mix 4 or 5 things together in different ways, let your ears decide! but i must admit to not being down with simple digital mixing of two tracks as if it if its 2 turnies.


its not for this old coot though

^^ I agree Jayar...mix 7 things! do some work!!

A DJ's instrument is their turntables (vinyl or CD), so maybe if someone is purely using Alberton you should look it as their instrument, rather than include them in the DJ bracket.

I agree, the simple blending of tracks would be ghey, but like Khem and Tim have said too, there is more time for incorporating other things or to remix the tracks on the spot.

yeah that's a much better way of saying what i was sorta getting at

So everyone is in agreement?

have to wait until dubstep is mentioned 

i LOL'd 

DUBSTEP! 

 

fuck tha lot of yis

so we're all in agreement... that ableton is OK as long as you're not playing dubstep

 I think most things are better without dubstep.

 Ableton sets, Forums, Dubstep

Jayar 

Spot on. If ya got the tools, use em!!!

I dunno if your still called a deejay if your not spinin tracks. 
Vinyl should be considered the benchmark and everything else compared to this.
Where do you draw the line though with criticism? is someone playing a 4 string bass only a third as skilled as the cat on twelve?
Still takes as much skill to thump out a digital drum kit!
Serato may rely on turny's but using the laptop. Is this a lack of record changing skillz?

I think they're all performance tools and each artist should be judged not on what they use but how well they use them.

Are we in the how to pickup thread?

Exactly, tell that to the top echelon of tablist rockin Serato. I'm currently devising sets around Serato, a Korg Nano and MPC. I may still have no skills but by no means am I lazier than I was rockin 2 twelves alone. In fact, I think I've lost weight!

haha
i like rocking it out on three decks for the crazy kind of cut&layered mixes you can devise, but its pretty tiring just trying to keep 3 tracks in synch.

ableton would make it a lot easier to come up with even more crazy shit that you simply could not do on decks & cds - thats what it should be for

^^^^ I got abelton coz i realized I wasnt 3 deck "friction" hahah 

I guess I just see Everyone(on stage) as a performing artist and try to judge them on their own merits. ie. Watching deejay shadow push buttons instead of playing a real piano is not as impressive as playing a real piano however the way he combines that with other technologies etc is fascinating!  After seeing people like Staen 1 and Roc Raida use Serato I think that sets the bench mark pretty high for anyone who thinks using serato makes things a walk in the park. 
I think Abletons downfall of acceptability is due to its visual simplicity and seems almost out dated(kraftwerk).

I'm playing a dubstep set USING Traktor! So flame on that kids ;-)

5 Buck Bass at Crown and Sceptor on the 18th of July. First used my setup at Presets Afterparty couple weeks back.

Me > Macbook Running Traktor > Midi Controller > Souncard/Interface that lets me send the RCA channel outs from the Macbook to the club mixer.

Haters form and orderly cue

So does it give a quality recording of a live show? Can you add a mic in as well?

I'm all for Traktor/serato but interseted to hear the pro's and con's of both.

Traktor can record sets internally, but I've not used that feature yet. I don't use timecoded vinyl or cds. I use a cute little 3rd party midi controller designed specifically for Traktor.

Come to 5 Buck Bass, Melly Melvin.

Unless you use a midi controller for the software mixer, you can only record the sum output.  Depends on the mixer whether it runs the mix through the record out I guess....

Traktor is a bit more geared to features and MIDI integration whereas Serato is just designed to be a rock solid 'virtual vinyl' device.  Which isn't to say Traktor isn't 'rock solid', I've not used it much since version 2 I think.

Traktor also allows you do automate beat matching, you can (sort of) mix just with a couple of sound cards, mouse and keyboard as it has the software mixer.

If you use the software mixer you can 'record' every aspect of the set including all your EQ changes etc. and 'overdub' - so if you were doing a semi-live studio mix you could re-do your EQing as you listen to it playing back.

Feature wise Serato has everything I want for right now (cue points, loops, and now a built in sampler)... My no. 1 'wish list' item is a 'pitch multiplier', so that you can get +/- 16 out of MK2s. (Serato detects the pitch adjustment and just doubles the effect it has on playback - can't believe they haven't done it already wouldn't be ahrd to code I wouldn't think).

Alex - I think you said you use an external mixer, do you use the auto beat matching feature?

Yeah Joe. On average i spend 5 - 10 mins on each track in my playlist (sometimes half an hour for the tricky ones). That is, for each tune i'm ever going to play out, i spend some time before the set telling Traktor a bunch of cue points i like, as well as what the bpm of the tune is, and a few other tweaks. That way when i play out, i'm able to do a bunch of different things.

Got every intention dude. Been flat out with study lately but I can see the light!


So Tracktor is centred around a midi controller and Serato is focused on getting the features of cdj's and computer software on vinyl player yeah?  

Yeah absolut, same with Serato really.  Pre-setting gains is a must, then at least one cue point if you use relative mode (usually 2 or 3), and some loops are nice for mixing hip hop and the ilk.  Not that I can't just use it in absolute mode and wind it back, had plenty of practice doing that, just a waste of time really.

As far as i know Melvin, Traktor is very similar to Serato if you want it to be. Both programs have interfaces (little rca box things) that allow for the software to be given instructions by timecoded vinyl. Traktor has its own timecoded vinyl discs too, but i don't use that feature.

Sort of,  you can just achieve Serato-like functionality with Traktor but IMO Serato shits all over it if that's all you're doing.

If you want more 'features' (see the NI website I can't keep up), or to use a MIDI device to 'virtualize' your DJ mixer, Traktor is the go I guess...

One interesting point is that all other competing products use the same timecode format, whereas Serato has a proprietary time code which (AFAIK) makes it the preferred package for turntablists.

Oh cool. I personally prefer to use the midi controller or cdj wheel compared to vinyl but would rather see wax on stage. However peeps like shadow really challenge that!

It's what your used to really... Given that I'm used to vinyl, and I can achieve all the features of a CDJ at least through Serato, I prefer adjusting the moving platter... Need to get more practice with the timecode CDs however (as I keep saying), too many venues with no turntables (cunts)

Yo khem/mods anon - did you want to split this off into a Traktor vs. Serato thread?  Went a bit OT a while ago, and don't want to type all this again when the next person asks what the difference is

Cant we just combine them all into one thread Ableton V Serato V Tracktor?
I think Ableton has its merits as well!

Of course, but it's a different ballgame.  You could sort of say that Traktor is a crossover between Serato & Ableton, but Ableton isn't a time code system, being the biggest defining diff.

I think what Mr. Being is doing with Traktor is sort of on the Ableton path, but most of the Traktor vs. Serato debate is about the time code steez...

The main aim of Ableton is to be able to combine your studio DAW with your Live performance program seamlessly.

The electronic oriented version of Mainstage (Logic) you could sorta say, although really Mainstage is a response by Apple to Ableton's popularity.

ableton is completely different to traktor and serato.

ableton overall is about making music but you can mix tracks together with it. serato and traktor are all about playing tunes

I know theres a big difference between the programs but they're all part of the new wave of technologies sweeping through the deejay world!

this thread STILL goin on!

vinyl, serato, final scratch, cdjs ect = DJ = Disc Jockey

Abelton (mixing whole tunes) = KJ = Knob Jockey 

NS7 plus itch = fuckin awesome!

no one had replied in it for nearly a month until you bumped it