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Global economic crisis 08/09

Started by thresh0ld · 5 Dec 2008 · 115 of about 601 posts survive · see it on the Wayback Machine

AuthorMessage
THRESHOLDPosts: 181
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 11:48amSubject: Global economic crisis 08/09
how has it affected you or people you know?
are you concerned about losing your job?
when do you will think it will end?



im up at roxby and 60 people were laid off from an engineering firm. my girlfriends work said that they may be laying off 100 people... so its all looking a bit sad and slow up here... I've heard that alot of nickel mines in WA have shut down due to the price of nickel going from $38,000 a tonne to $7000 a tonne, making production non-profitable..
deathmazePosts: 3,079
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 12:01pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I haven't noticed an difference personally, I have a "permanent" government job so I'm not worried about losing it. Shit happens!

This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 12:11pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Same here. Not worried.
JayarPromoters
Posts: 2,790
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 12:14pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
i know of literally dozens of jobs in architecture that have already dissapeared, ie retrenchments.


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cleascJ.R.F.M.O
Posts: 2,585
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 12:22pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Lot's of the large projects we were expecting to be starting now have been put on hold until further notice.
"Real Drum & Bass is not something that sounds like a 17yr old rock band who have just listened to slipmat on thir first E & decided to make Drum & Bass" - Marcus Intalex
CaitPosts: 1,437
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 12:27pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Very worried.
I work with the global agricultural markets. The credit crisis has meant that many of the countries that usually buy our wheat, chickpeas, beans, barley, oats, maize, peas, broad beans, etc cannot get credit from their banks and therefore cannot buy from Australia. Often Aussie sellers will require a LC payment (letter of credit, not a shortening on my screen name) and they simply cannot open them with their banks.
To break it down... It is currently harvest time for many commodities. However trade right now is extremely slow. None of our stuff is going OS as not many buyers can afford to buy anything. This means the buyers aren't distributing, the distributors aren't selling to shops, shops aren't selling to consumers, consumers are going hungry.

This is the example for poorer nations who rely on lentils, peas and beans from countries like Australia, Canada and some European countries (Eg; Turkey.)
The majority of our Barley goes to China, who make beer from it.

Why I am worried is that, as a broker, no trade = no commission for this company. No commission means no pay. Luckily this is a very small company and if need be, we can work from home to save on rent. This is if worst comes to worst. The bigger companies are more worried.
oliJust the
Posts: 4,358
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 12:42pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
im up at roxby and 60 people were laid off from an engineering firm. my girlfriends work said that they may be laying off 100 people... so its all looking a bit sad and slow up here... I've heard that alot of nickel mines in WA have shut down due to the price of nickel going from $38,000 a tonne to $7000 a tonne, making production non-profitable..

I wonder if Roxby Downs still has the highest average income in the state. I think that was the conclusion from the last ABS about income in SA...

In my field of work I haven't really noticed much change. What little change there has been I'd blame on Christmas and not the economic situation.
NoddyPosts: 7,430
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 2:26pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I've noticed petrol is a shitload cheaper and my fixed home loan comes up for renewal in January so it's been nothing but fantastic from where I'm sitting.

Had more work than ever both design wise and shifts at the winery the last couple of months as well.

I hope the crisis keeps going to be perfectly honest.
Testing the limits of the human heart since 1973.
Rob FrostPosts: 2,329
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 2:32pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
My interest rates have been steadily going down (variable rate mortgage, the only way to fly), I am about to cut up my credit cards, it's not costing me an arm and a leg to fill up the car and we're gearing up for our annual IT event early next year at work to keep the jobs flowing in.

I think I am siding with Noddy on this one - what crisis?
JayarPromoters
Posts: 2,790
Posted: 5 Dec 2008, 3:12pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
it's been nothing but fantastic from where I'm sitting.

ha for sure. some of this stuff takes a loooooong time to filter into different areas though.

my industry has been hit very hard, very quickly though its not affecting my firm in the slightest that i can see (yet)... its top of the food chain so to speak (dealing with large sums of money, investors etc) but ultimately, less money flowing around higher up eventually means less for the bottom feeders like Rob sometime soon. economics 101 teef


im looking forward to the more competitive building tenders that will come in early next year and ultra low interest rates - that much is certain! icon_mrgreen


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Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 6 Dec 2008, 12:47amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
1. there is no crisis in Australia

2. dont even get me started

3. speak to someone who has a clue before you rebutt
Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
RestlessPosts: 54
Posted: 6 Dec 2008, 1:00amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
1. there is no crisis

2. dont even get me started

3. speak to someone who has a clue before you rebutt


lol I support a bunch of hedgefunds/asset management companies in London... at least 6 of them have closed doors in the last month, most have cut staff, and everyone has put on hold any IT related projects = me basically working half days at the moment = me getting paid half of what i was 2 months ago.

*shrug*


R~!
FunkyJPromoters
Posts: 3,627
Posted: 6 Dec 2008, 9:25amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Had more work than ever both design wise and shifts at the winery the last couple of months as well.

Yup, alcohol sales get better as the economy goes down. cheers

Apparently the US videogames industry will be one of the few to weather the storm.

A few companies are looking shaky - Midway for example - but that's more because of bad investment and management than anything else.

It's like the "dot-com" bust. Those companies which had solid ideas and a firm basis are still around.

I think that's the real issue - so many companies are under bad management they're going to go under, but the ones with good foundations will remain.
Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 6 Dec 2008, 10:33amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09

lol I support a bunch of hedgefunds/asset management companies in London... at least 6 of them have closed doors in the last month, most have cut staff, and everyone has put on hold any IT related projects = me basically working half days at the moment = me getting paid half of what i was 2 months ago.

*shrug*


R~!


laugh

sorry mate, i 'fixed' my original post, sort of.

fuck i must have been pissed as a mule when i wrote that too, just got back from my work dinner/drinks. wish i didn't because there is no way i can make a blanket bullshit statement like that and not get  slammed for it now. fucking drunk idiot  :slapshead:  laugh

Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
THRESHOLDPosts: 181
Posted: 6 Dec 2008, 4:13pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I wonder if Roxby Downs still has the highest average income in the state. I think that was the conclusion from the last ABS about income in SA...

yeah i think it is, however with my shifts being cut into thirds and still paying a ridiculious amount of rent im just on top of things to where I was a few months ago with heaps of work...
BenzaahPosts: 123
Posted: 8 Dec 2008, 6:27pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Our Company moto at the moment is " I am not participating in a recession". We see this as a time to grow market share and pick up good employees who have been laid off. Im looking forward to a prosperous couple of years...
Since 1976
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,351
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:29pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
It seems strange, the government is going on about the ever looming economic crisis. Interest rates are down, petrol's cheap and as a bonus Ruddy's giving out christmas cheques in the mail all the while everyone seems to be doing okay(Australia wise). I'm sure there's some real hard luck cases and I feel for the poor sods but consider it taking one for the team.  It seems that the only people who really got fucked over are the big(Greedy) corporations and if thats the case then Woo Hoo! I realise that the costs will filter down through everybody but the poor ain't gonna get poorer!
StrykeSuper Hyper-Mega
Posts: 4,241
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:39pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09

 FFS I wish I would get some kind of bonus cheque/ payment.
 
 Single people get fuck all.
When I die. I want to be frozen. And if they have to freeze me in pieces, so be it. I will wake up stronger than ever, because I will have used that time, to figure out exactly why I died. And what moves I could have used to defend myself better now that I know what hold he had me in.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:45pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
FFS I wish I would get some kind of bonus cheque/ payment.
 
 Single people get fuck all.

EXACTLY

Whilst watching the news this morning, all I could think to myself was "when the fuck am I going to get my benefit????"

As a single tax payer, I give up a fuck lot of tax. Same as Reuben. We arent considered as a family income and we pay shitloads in tax and get diddly squat back. I have private health as well, and with all of my bills, mortgage and living costs it doesnt leave much for me to go spending this christmas. Wouldnt I love a fucking bonus that I actually deserve rather than seeing it go to the same people who get benefits given to them over and over again. I would have rather have seen this bonus come back as a tax benefit.

Once again an increase in sales of plasmas will occur this Christmas. If you ask me, a plasma TV isnt going to aid some of those people who need actually need help.
NoddyPosts: 7,430
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:46pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
$3000 slayer
Testing the limits of the human heart since 1973.
JayarPromoters
Posts: 2,790
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:46pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
It seems strange, the government is going on about the ever looming economic crisis. Interest rates are down, petrol's cheap and as a bonus Ruddy's giving out christmas cheques in the mail all the while everyone seems to be doing okay(Australia wise). I'm sure there's some real hard luck cases and I feel for the poor sods but consider it taking one for the team.  It seems that the only people who really got fucked over are the big(Greedy) corporations and if thats the case then Woo Hoo! I realise that the costs will filter down through everybody but the poor ain't gonna get poorer!

ha, not quite mate
the whole 'crisis' was caused by poor economic management by the finance industry and the 'big greedy corporations', in a sense, counting chickens before they were even eggs and inflating the value of their own worth more than their true value to generate cash flow with credit (ie money they owed). Its usually the 'poor sods' who had no hand in the mismanagement of the funds that caused this current crisis, dont get to enjoy the spoils before the fall and then get fucked up the arse (as opposed to taking one for the team). the unemployment rate is rising, and the job ads are at their lowest since the 1990s recession - normal everyday people are copping it, not just self funded retirees who have saved up to buy shares (i doubt you'd feel like 'taking one for the team if it meant foreclosing your house say) and yet, there will be sweet fuck all in the way of accountability for the dicks who caused this in wall st, bar a few figurehead convictions probably - they certainly wont be forced to sell their assets, thats for sure.

The money being given out is to increase the flow of funds from government coffers and stimulate the economy - the exact thing that DIDNT happen during the 1930s depression.


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Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:47pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
erika, here's an angle you could try:

smoking alcoholics should get the most benefit, cos they pay the most tax, innnit!



edit: Jayar, it makes me hate the American dream even more, when you consider their greed affects us all the way over here, even though our finance sector is fundamentally sound and stable.
Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,351
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:48pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Yeah thats shit shit too! The single white male is the only person guaranteed to blow a thousand dollar cheque with haste. Instead we give it to the oldie hoarders and the parents who are so paranoid about house prices or how much school fees are going up that they save it!  I thought the message was SPEND SPEND SPEND! Then after the mail out the have the nerve to say a teachers payrise 'isn't in the budget'!
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:53pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Yeah thats shit shit too! The single white male is the only person guaranteed to blow a thousand dollar cheque with haste. Instead we give it to the oldie hoarders and the parents who are so paranoid about house prices or how much school fees are going up that they save it!  I thought the message was SPEND SPEND SPEND! Then after the mail out the have the nerve to say a teachers payrise 'isn't in the budget'!

Um, the Federal Government is giving the bonus

Teaching crisis is a state thing.

Two different Governments.

Federal funds state and determines how much state is allowed to spend.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 4:54pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
erika, here's an angle you could try:

smoking alcoholics should get the most benefit, cos they pay the most tax, innnit!


Well thats not me...  teef you would be proud to hear Flukey that I havnt drunk a ML since Sunday!

(The binge drinking thread kinda had me thinking  laugh )
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,351
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:00pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Then surely in the same gesture of good will, the federal government can do a mail out to teachers with a 21% pay rise.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:04pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Then surely in the same gesture of good will, the federal government can do a mail out to teachers with a 21% pay rise.

yeh. Why dont you create an internet petition and get people that think the same as you on board!

Whilst you are at it, create a facebook group!

WOW then we will really see some big changes!



 teef
NoddyPosts: 7,430
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:08pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Wont that go to the mother of your kids?  teef

Pokies & drugs I reckon.


























Actually, it's all going to Lisa and the kids.
Testing the limits of the human heart since 1973.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:11pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Typical! Fucking Labor party! Have their priorities all wrong!
Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:12pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Typical! Fucking Labor party! Have their priorities all wrong!


what would you do if you were leader of our country, erika?
Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:25pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
BAN ALCOHOL

 teef
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:27pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Seriously though, what would you do?

Im not the pollie in my family. I am leaving politics to my older sister. Shes the expert.
Im just a pleb with a lot of opinions. Nothing more really.

There is no way I could be in politics with my reputation anyway.

 teef
StrykeSuper Hyper-Mega
Posts: 4,249
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 5:32pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09

 I dunno Boris Yeltsin did pretty well.
When I die. I want to be frozen. And if they have to freeze me in pieces, so be it. I will wake up stronger than ever, because I will have used that time, to figure out exactly why I died. And what moves I could have used to defend myself better now that I know what hold he had me in.
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 6:02pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
What do you think liberals would have done differently?


You guys need to get a joke.




I was commenting on how the money should  be spent on pokies and drugs rather than on children.

I was not being serious.

**Shakes head**
GlockPosts: 4,844
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 7:03pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
She even used the  teef geez haven't we learnt already!!!






badthumbs
JayarPromoters
Posts: 2,795
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 8:42pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
[quote author=Fluke link=topic=3021.msg140614#msg140614 date=1228807027
edit: Jayar, it makes me hate the American dream even more, when you consider their greed affects us all the way over here, even though our finance sector is fundamentally sound and stable.
[/quote]

AYE!
see how much OUR dollar dropped in the wake? its all due to currency speculation and bullshit, not as to who has a better/more stable financial system at the time.

they fuck up
we eat it


Live 3-deck mix @ HEAVY INNIT, Melbs

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Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 9 Dec 2008, 8:46pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
note it in your diary kids....

the day that Fluke and Jayar agreed on something

laugh



**buys stack hat in fear of pig shit**

teef
Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,357
Posted: 10 Dec 2008, 3:58pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
You guys need to get a joke.




I was commenting on how the money should  be spent on pokies and drugs rather than on children.

I was not being serious.

**Shakes head**


Reeelaaxx!
I was quite seriously asking what peeps think the libs would have done differently. Not trying to take a swipe.
I personally am glad labor is in at the time when this hit. Otherwise I think the common folk would be feeling the pinch alot more!
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 10 Dec 2008, 5:22pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I dunno. Thats why I said this.

Seriously though, what would you do?

Im not the pollie in my family. I am leaving politics to my older sister. Shes the expert.
Im just a pleb with a lot of opinions. Nothing more really.

There is no way I could be in politics with my reputation anyway.

 teef

Actually, I change my mind....

First thing I would do is censor the internet.
JayarPromoters
Posts: 2,795
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 12:21pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
WOW WAY to help the nation Kruddy!

Fucks sake how ridiculous. My taxpayers money is being wasted on uneducated idiots

laugh
do you mean uneducated or unemployed? I'll leave you to Funky J if its the former teef
its a pretty trashy article, speculating, nothing else and ummm, there could be a coincidence that its almost christmas too Erika - you know, that time of year when people spend more and buy more? icon_wink


never mind how many billions got paid subsidising the poor old coal mining industry, effectively paying to cause climate change under Howard.


Live 3-deck mix @ HEAVY INNIT, Melbs

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Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,357
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:12pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
WOW WAY to help the nation Kruddy!

Fucks sake how ridiculous. My taxpayers money is being wasted on uneducated idiots

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,24812784-5014239,00.html

Wasn't this the very idea of the handout, to promote spending and cash turn over. Especially seeing as parents were the benefactor of the hand out. Sounds like they all went out and bought game consoles, great.  Who else got a piece of the economic stimulus package? oldies?
Game consoles are a shit load cheaper this xmas too (300 for an Xbox, bargain). They were all alot newer back then.
Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:16pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
WOW WAY to help the nation Kruddy!

Fucks sake how ridiculous. My taxpayers money is being wasted on uneducated idiots

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,24812784-5014239,00.html


sounds like you're the unedukated one erika - the money was to be spent on luxury items, not drawn out over the day to day running of the house items, and it has been (christmas presents by the sounds of things)

success IMO.
Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:26pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I wish I was given a package to spend on luxury items, especially as I work and pay the taxes! Not give my hard earned taxes to people who waste it on X boxes. At least spend it on possessions that help people in their day to day life. (i.e. books).

GlockPosts: 4,844
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:27pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I like your extrapolation of the link between video game enthusiasts and uneducated idiots too Erika.

I guess seeing as I like video games I must be an uneducated idiot. Thank you. teef
LeezeeThe right honourable
Posts: 2,899
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:28pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I wish I was given a package to spend on luxury items, especially as I work and pay the taxes! Not give my hard earned taxes to people who waste it on X boxes. At least spend it on possessions that help people in their day to day life. (i.e. books).



How the fuck does buying a book help someone in their day to day life???

 laugh laugh laugh
Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:30pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
rofl


erika - i'd like to subscribe to your newsletter
Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:31pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I like your extrapolation of the link between video game enthusiasts and uneducated idiots too Erika.

I guess seeing as I like video games I must be an uneducated idiot. Thank you. teef

bahaha ok, maybe i was getting a little dramatic here.

How the fuck does buying a book help someone in their day to day life???

 laugh laugh laugh

BAHHAA

I was thinking that a book is far more educational for a child in comparison to an Xbox. However, I do admit I was being dramatic again due to my anger of the money being spend on unnecessary items.

Just let me be angry goddamit !  laugh
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:32pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
If I had 300 bucks I would much rather buy a five year old child some books over an Xbox any day. An Xbox is not going to help a child to read.

Most of this money is going to lower socio economic areas where kids have lower literacy rates.

GlockPosts: 4,844
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 5:40pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
If I had 300 bucks I would much rather buy a five year old child some books over an Xbox any day. An Xbox is not going to help a child to read.

Most of this money is going to lower socio economic areas where kids have lower literacy rates.



Yeah but books don't help your manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination, also important life skills. I love books too and I agree with your sentiment but video games do have their merits you have to admit that.
oliJust the
Posts: 4,364
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 7:40pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I hate handouts. Full stop. I don't care who they're going to.

Give a hand out to people too lazy to work, and they'll have another excuse not too work.

Give a family a hand out because they've had their name pulled out of a hat by a public servant and they probably don't REALLY need the money, but they'll go spend it on something materialistic to keep up with the Joneses.

Give a private company because they're too stupid to run a profitable business and they won't have much reason to sort themselves out. Look at the vehicle manufacturing industry in Australia. They have no incentive at all to improve their business practices and build vehicles that people really want because they know that every time they dig themselves in too deep the government will hand them a few billion dollars (our money by the way).
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,357
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 8:14pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Give a hand out to people too lazy to work, and they'll have another excuse not too work.

Generalise some!  Some people have no hope from birth of ever succeeding in life as we know it.
oliJust the
Posts: 4,364
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 8:18pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
If I was generalising then you are exaggerating. If someone's come from a difficult background but they can dedicate themselves to improving things for themselves then they have as much chance as succeeding as anyone else, IMO.
khemAdministrator
Posts: 9,963
Posted: 17 Dec 2008, 10:32pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
If I had 300 bucks I would much rather buy a five year old child some books over an Xbox any day.

i am sooo glad you arent my mum

cant wait to finally get an xbox when i get home

teef

ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 18 Dec 2008, 9:28amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I hate handouts. Full stop. I don't care who they're going to.

Give a hand out to people too lazy to work, and they'll have another excuse not too work.

Give a family a hand out because they've had their name pulled out of a hat by a public servant and they probably don't REALLY need the money, but they'll go spend it on something materialistic to keep up with the Joneses.

Give a private company because they're too stupid to run a profitable business and they won't have much reason to sort themselves out. Look at the vehicle manufacturing industry in Australia. They have no incentive at all to improve their business practices and build vehicles that people really want because they know that every time they dig themselves in too deep the government will hand them a few billion dollars (our money by the way).

Hooray! You are a legend Oli! I completely agree with everything you are saying!

I also think giving handouts to people who have not worked for it hardly makes the people who have worked for it any more motivated to continue to strive on.

"I might as well go on the dole. Whats the point in working when look what you get when you dont."

For people who are part time workers and make only 5-600 a fortnight, it is far more viable to be on the dole IMO. Far better quality of life.  teef
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 18 Dec 2008, 9:34amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Yeah but books don't help your manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination, also important life skills. I love books too and I agree with your sentiment but video games do have their merits you have to admit that.

Hmm I dont know about that. I never was given any video games or fancy gifts when I was growing up. I used to go outside and run and play and use my imagination.

And honestly, my hand eye co-ordination is better than alot of other people I know. I can catch rubber bands that are flicked at me from miles away! **beats chest**  laugh

LaurenPosts: 1,756
Posted: 3 Apr 2009, 5:42pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
can anyone clarify the criteria for getting this stimulus package?

i can tell you for sure on monday when i'm at work.
that's if you have your 08 notice of assessment from your tax return.
khemAdministrator
Posts: 9,963
Posted: 3 Apr 2009, 7:11pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
dont really have it handy, i did it while i was overseas so my paperwork is archived somewhere

laugh

but yeah, shoot any info over, ill try and locate my paperwork...

hehe
m.r.third-eyesustainablility unit
Posts: 1,116
Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 3:57pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
khemAdministrator
Posts: 9,963
Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 5:54pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
thumbs-up
khemAdministrator
Posts: 9,963
Posted: 8 Apr 2009, 12:47pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
now, i just need to find my NOA

laugh
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 8 Apr 2009, 1:14pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Sounds like Kruddy aint so bad afterall!  teef

I wish I was given a package to spend on luxury items, especially as I work and pay the taxes! Not give my hard earned taxes to people who waste it on X boxes. At least spend it on possessions that help people in their day to day life. (i.e. books).

How the fuck does buying a book help someone in their day to day life???

 laugh laugh laugh

If I had 300 bucks I would much rather buy a five year old child some books over an Xbox any day. An Xbox is not going to help a child to read.


Erika:
All this information is on the web, so use your education and your skills to look it up, before appearing like a right royal wanker and being completely wrong about almost everything you've said so far in this thread.

http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,28323,25307319-5017313,00.html

So do the economy a favour, buy a book  teef bahaha
m.r.third-eyesustainablility unit
Posts: 1,116
Posted: 9 Apr 2009, 3:01pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Got extra staff on at our department to cope with the influx of payments, gonna create an extra 10 jobs or so , just in my sector, for the next four months or more too...
the pink PS3 would be your best bet Julian  teef
FunkyJPromoters
Posts: 3,632
Posted: 9 Apr 2009, 5:09pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Got extra staff on at our department to cope with the influx of payments, gonna create an extra 10 jobs or so , just in my sector, for the next four months or more too...
the pink PS3 would be your best bet Julian  teef

Well, my favourite flavour is musk, after all...

I might spend it on pills instead... as long as they're Australian made, I'm helping the economy...
khemAdministrator
Posts: 9,963
Posted: 22 Apr 2009, 12:09pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
http://blogs.news.com.au/budgetbuster/index.php/news/comments/a_third_stimulus_what_happened_to_the_second_one/

Quote
All cheque and EFT payments will be made using a post code selection process that is randomly generated, ensuring all post codes are evenly distributed to each state and territory each night (using the Australia Post predetermined percentage spread). For this reason and because of security concerns, we are not planning to publish a distribution schedule.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,793
Posted: 22 Apr 2009, 11:30pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Freddie Mac official found dead in apparent suicide
Police investigating death of Freddie Mac official, dead of apparent suicide

Matt Small, Associated Press Writer
Wednesday April 22, 2009, 9:21 am EDT
WASHINGTON (AP) -- David Kellermann, the acting chief financial officer of mortgage giant Freddie Mac, was found dead at his home Wednesday morning in what police said was an apparent suicide.

Mary Ann Jennings, director of public information for the Fairfax County, Va., Police Department, said Kellermann was found dead in his Reston, Va., home. The 41-year-old Kellermann has been Freddie Mac's chief financial officer since September.

Jennings said that a crime scene crew and homicide detectives were investigating the death, but that there didn't appear to be any sign of foul play.

McLean-based Freddie Mac has been criticized heavily for reckless business practices that some argue contributed to the housing and financial crisis. Freddic Mac is a government-controlled company that owns or guarantees about 13 million home loans. CEO David Moffett resigned last month.

Freddie Mac and sibling company Fannie Mae, which together own or back more than half of the home mortgages in the country, have been hobbled by skyrocketing loan defaults and have received about $60 billion in combined federal aid.

Kellermann was named acting chief financial officer in September 2008, after the resignation of Anthony "Buddy" Piszel, who stepped down after the September 2008 government takeover. The chief financial officer is responsible for the company's financial controls, financial reporting and oversight of the company's budget and financial planning.

Before taking that job, Kellerman served as senior vice president, corporate controller and principal accounting officer. He was with Freddie Mac for more than 16 years.
FunkyJPromoters
Posts: 3,632
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 9:47amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Shows just how fucking lame this world has become.

Why didn't he jump out of a window like the stockbrokers did in the 30s? because he had no fucking balls, that's why!
ErkPosts: 4,201
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 12:09pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
How fucking lame is it when someone is commenting on how lame it is about the way someone suicides.
Rob FrostPosts: 2,332
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 12:10pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Shows just how fucking lame this world has become.

Why didn't he jump out of a window like the stockbrokers did in the 30s? because he had no fucking balls, that's why!

You're a hearless cretin, really.

No one needs to take their own life over money.

I do agree it shows how lame the world has become, however we're probably looking at it from different sides of the same coin.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,793
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 12:41pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
 laugh The first 25 posts on one of the political forums I post on were humorous. One of the guys who made a joke currently works for the Democrats(American) in his state. Granted, most were better than J's, but the difference in attitude on this board is huge.

You have to consider the possibility that it isn't the typical money complaint Rob. I would argue that it is understandably difficult to assuage guilt that you were an important part of a GSE that implemented government regulations that led to a worldwide economic downturn. Apparently the Yuppie Nuremberg Defense is not enough sometimes, certainly not when your ability to pay the mortgage was funded by other peoples inability to. I'm not in any way defending the act, but I am willing to assume he felt huge pressure.


Rob FrostPosts: 2,332
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 1:04pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
laugh The first 25 posts on one of the political forums I post on were humorous. One of the guys who made a joke currently works for the Democrats(American) in his state. Granted, most were better than J's, but the difference in attitude on this board is huge.

You have to consider the possibility that it isn't the typical money complaint Rob. I would argue that it is understandably difficult to assuage guilt that you were an important part of a GSE that implemented government regulations that led to a worldwide economic downturn. Apparently the Yuppie Nuremberg Defense is not enough sometimes, certainly not when your ability to pay the mortgage was funded by other peoples inability to. I'm not in any way defending the act, but I am willing to assume he felt huge pressure.

I certainly do not deny that he would have been straining under such a burden. I suppose I feel sorry for him that he had no one he could turn to for help.

And I strike out at Julian and other detractors because they cannot honestly say that they have never been in a situation where they felt they had no options left and needed to turn to someone to help them. So to make light of such a terrible situation is hypocritical and thoughtless.

Again, I reiterate - No one needs to end their life over money, especially as we as humans are the ones who put the value on it.
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,357
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:07pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Again, I reiterate - No one needs to end their life over money, especially as we as humans are the ones who put the value on it.

For a vast number of people life and money are very intertwined and I can completely understand when someone takes their own life over a monetary situation especially when their own sense of self worth is already greatly depreciated.  I'd go as fa as to say that money is as good a reason as any to bump ya self off.    Your right J is pretty heartless but most people don't give a fuck about their common man so can't expect him to.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,793
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:27pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Can we please appreciate the nuance between this and other monetary situations please. This man was the CFO of the largest GSE of the largest economy in the world. He was incredibly rich. His organisation was required by national law to finance houses to a huge number of people who couldn't afford them. The inevitable happened and thus he felt some responsibility for making many people in the world suffer. He had no problems with his own bank account though; I'm sure it was immense.
Rob FrostPosts: 2,332
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:30pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I'd go as fa as to say that money is as good a reason as any to bump ya self off.

My incredulousness at this statement is only outweighed by my sheer contemptuousness for you and the totalness of your ignorance.
John LPosts: 2,129
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:33pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I don't believe any thing is worth ending your life over - There is always hope for a better future.
Get off my lawn.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,793
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:44pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Do you believe that anyone with a malady that can not be 'got rid of' is wrong in choosing euthanasia?
deathmazePosts: 3,079
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:51pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Good point, there isn't always hope for a better future.

ru-oh euthanasia debate!
This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,793
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:55pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Right after I see if anything comes of this potential Frost Vs. Smiley shit slinging contest.
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,357
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 3:59pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
No.  I think if some wants out bad enough then its their call. Sure its sad that they didn't have help etc etc but its still their call.  I myself am not down with it but I don't pass judgment on those who see it as an option.
Fluke~HOMEWORK~
Posts: 7,059
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 4:13pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
i feared that if i continued down the path of Finance and Law, i would one day end up like this guy
Straight Edge since 1994.

Dyslexics are teople poo.
Rob FrostPosts: 2,332
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 5:21pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
No.  I think if some wants out bad enough then its their call. Sure its sad that they didn't have help etc etc but its still their call.  I myself am not down with it but I don't pass judgment on those who see it as an option.

You only get help if you ask for help. It's a hard thing to do - admit weakness or fault or vulnerability and ask someone to help you.

But it's a much, much better option than taking your own life.

How you are unable to rationalise this in your own head is beyond my comprehension. There is nothing on this planet that can make you think that suicide is a better option. People have been bashed, raped, sent bankrupt, tortured, been discriminated against etc and they find the will to keep living because they seek help.

Perhaps you were born with mild retardation?
John LPosts: 2,129
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 5:30pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Sorry - I should have known that some clown would pick the most extreme case.

I was talking in relative terms.

Terminal illness is a different case, of course. If you are in that much physical pain that you just cannot go on any longer then go ahead and top yourself.

Living in hope that things will get better is a positive state of mind. If you think negatively about every little thing that happens to you then you need your head checked, life is all about ups and downs, you deal with it just like everyone else and move on.
Get off my lawn.
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,357
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 6:44pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
You only get help if you ask for help. It's a hard thing to do - admit weakness or fault or vulnerability and ask someone to help you.

But it's a much, much better option than taking your own life.

How you are unable to rationalise this in your own head is beyond my comprehension. There is nothing on this planet that can make you think that suicide is a better option. People have been bashed, raped, sent bankrupt, tortured, been discriminated against etc and they find the will to keep living because they seek help.

Perhaps you were born with mild retardation?

I'm not advocating that there is a good reason to take your life. But all that means is I haven't been tipped over the edge yet and living in a fantasy that nothing can make you want out is just ludicrous. Some people cant take it anymore and they call it quits, who the fuck are you to tell them they've made the wrong choice! 
I reckon this fella has probably been dealing with a whole lot of guilt of late and I don't think its surprising that eventually the weight of that burden became too great!
deathmazePosts: 3,079
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 7:32pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Terminal illness is a different case, of course. If you are in that much physical pain that you just cannot go on any longer then go ahead and top yourself.

Yes, I totally agree. But then some people are in a psychological state that makes them feel they are in the same situation.
This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.
FunkyJPromoters
Posts: 3,627
Posted: 23 Apr 2009, 7:44pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I certainly do not deny that he would have been straining under such a burden. I suppose I feel sorry for him that he had no one he could turn to for help.

And I strike out at Julian and other detractors because they cannot honestly say that they have never been in a situation where they felt they had no options left and needed to turn to someone to help them. So to make light of such a terrible situation is hypocritical and thoughtless.

How the fuck am I hypocritical?
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 11:02amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
More than anything, you guys should empathise how his family and friends would deal with it.

If someone I knew who was close to me killed themself, I dont know how I would deal with it, especially knowing that I could have stopped it occuring.

Have some sensitivity peoples.

I dont judge anyone who is suicidal or commits the act but it is an act which can be avoided if the right help is received.  In todays world people seem to forget that life is the most precious thing of all. Fuck money and fuck peoples mortgages. No money in the world is worth someones life.

If anyone has ever contemplated it themself then they know the deep dark feeling of desperation and anguish one encounters when considering it. I dont wish it on anyone, even my worst enemy. 

The end.
Melvin SmileyPromoters
Posts: 2,351
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 11:16amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I don't think its really money that caused him to go. More Guilt! Plundging the world into recession is a pretty big fuck up by any ones standards.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 11:17amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Yes true that.

However he will never have the chance to redeem himself now.
FunkyJPromoters
Posts: 3,627
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 11:28amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
And if it turns out he wasn't depressed, but instead chose to take his life rather than face the consequences of his and his company's actions, should we have sympathy then?
Rob FrostPosts: 2,329
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 11:57amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
And if it turns out he wasn't depressed, but instead chose to take his life rather than face the consequences of his and his company's actions, should we have sympathy then?

By and large, you're a bit of a pillock, aren't you.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 12:12pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
And if it turns out he wasn't depressed, but instead chose to take his life rather than face the consequences of his and his company's actions, should we have sympathy then?

Do you understand what you are actually saying?

Anyone who commits suicide is suffering from some sort of mental illness/problem.  How can you not empathise with that?

Suicide is final. It is a drastic unnecessary option. What good did all that money do for him in the end? Nothing. All the billions of dollars didn't save him from himself.

I dont think a death sentence is the way to punish someone however I guess some people would consider that every life has a price and so punish accordingly. That then poses the question, what is the value of a life?

deathmazePosts: 3,079
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 12:15pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
TREE FIDEE!
This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,792
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 12:45pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Yes true that.

However he will never have the chance to redeem himself now.

He couldn't have redeemed himself! Government regulations forced his GSE to sell a certain % of home loans to people below the median. People who cannot afford to pay them back. It is part of the mixed Keynesian economics both sides of the democratic dichotomy subscribe to. It remains the prevailing economic school. With a man in charge who is for most intents and purposes a socialist, I do not see how this improves itself. This is what happens when you regulate kindness to the impoverished because you can usually back up losses with increased tax revenue. When something happens that halts productivity and exchange, and property value drops, the government looks towards massaging the economy, usually through highly inflationary measures; which, if it does fix anything, leads to the same bust cycle down the track. It happened in the 70's, at which time the USG wrote Freddie and Fannie off their books temporarily; it can easily happen again. He can't redeem it, because he isn't the USG or the Fed, and they can't fully redeem it because democracy doesn't leave much space for drastic change.

His guilt, if that is what caused this, is probably from being in bed with an idea he knew could not hold.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 2:28pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I dont think you understood what I meant.

I meant redeem himself as a man. Not as a banker.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,792
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 2:45pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I agree with that. It certainly seems that using the suicide option prior to attempting to assuage guilt, possibly by resigning his position and trying a new life, is a little on the rash side.

Quit job and move family to Liechtenstein > Suicide.

I need to be less tense about these matters sometimes.
ErkPosts: 4,199
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 2:51pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Funny to see your little economics speach though.
Rob FrostPosts: 2,329
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 3:02pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Funny to see your little economics speach though.

You get the impression Toby has been just dying to get that out in this thread for ages.

You provided him with the perfect segue.

Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,792
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 3:10pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
It's in need of serious editing, but it released some pent up stress.
Cinnamon GirlPosts: 3,736
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 3:32pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
This is what happens when you regulate kindness to the impoverished because you can usually back up losses with increased tax revenue.

Kindness, wtf. I call it GREED.
Beyond the shards of glass scattered across a pathway lies a shattered human being (Adams, 2009).
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,792
Posted: 24 Apr 2009, 3:44pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Kindness, wtf. I call it GREED.

I call it property theft so the government can supply a failed business model. That's all semantics though; the important thing as that we both agree that if the state had kept their nose out, FDR had never been born, and The General Theory went unwritten, everybody would be happier right now.
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,792
Posted: 25 Apr 2009, 12:06amSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
Prior warning: this post is long, dry and technical. It is also incredibly important. I don't think I am overstepping the mark in believing such an abuse of power is worthy of a jail sentence for the chairman of the Fed. Reserve.


Text of Cuomo letter on Merrill Lynch takeover
By MarketWatch
Last update: 12:54 p.m. EDT April 23, 2009
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) - New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo released the following letter he wrote on Thursday to Sen. Chris Dodd, Rep. Barney Frank, SEC Chairwoman Mary Schapiro, and Congressional Oversight Panel Chairwoman Elizabeth Warren about his investigation into Bank of America's (BAC) merger with Merrill Lynch.

Dear Chairpersons Dodd, Frank, Schapiro and Warren:
I am writing regarding our investigation of the events surrounding Bank of America's merger with Merrill Lynch late last year. Because you are the overseers and regulators of the Troubled Asset Relief Program ("TARP"), the banking industry, and the Treasury Department, we are informing you of certain results of our investigation. As you will see, while the investigation initially focused on huge fourth quarter bonus payouts, we have uncovered facts that raise questions about the transparency of the TARP program, as well as about corporate governance and disclosure practices at Bank of America. Because some matters relating to our investigation involve federal agencies and high-ranking federal officials charged with managing the TARP program, we believe it is important to inform the relevant federal bodies of our current findings. We have attached relevant documents to this letter for your review.

On September 15, 2008, Merrill Lynch entered into a merger agreement with Bank of America. The merger was negotiated and due diligence was conducted over the course of a tumultuous September 13-14 weekend. Time was of the essence for Merrill Lynch, as the company was not likely to survive the following week without a merger. The merger was approved by shareholders on December 5, 2008, and became effective on January 1, 2009.

The week after the shareholder vote -and days after Merrill Lynch set its bonuses Merrill Lynch quickly and quietly booked billions of dollars of additional losses. Merrill Lynch's fourth quarter 2008 losses turned out to be $7 billion worse than it had projected prior to the merger vote and finalizing its bonuses. These additional losses, some of which had become known to Bank of America executives prior to the merger vote, were not disclosed to shareholders until mid-January 2009, two weeks after the merger had closed on January 1, 2009.
On Sunday, December 14, 2008, Bank of America's CFO advised Ken Lewis, Bank of America's CEO, that Merrill Lynch's financial condition had seriously deteriorated at an alarming rate. Indeed, Lewis was advised that Merrill Lynch had lost several billion dollars since December 8, 2008. In six days, Merrill Lynch's projected fourth quarter losses skyrocketed from $9 billion to $12 billion, and fourth quarter losses
ultimately exceeded $15 billion.

Immediately after learning on December 14, 2008 of what Lewis described as the "staggering amount of deterioration" at Merrill Lynch, Lewis conferred with counsel to determine if Bank of America had grounds to rescind the merger agreement by using a clause that allowed Bank of America to exit the deal if a material adverse event ("MAC") occurred. After a series of internal consultations and consultations with counsel, on December 17, 2008, Lewis informed then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson that Bank of America was seriously considering invoking the MAC clause. Paulson asked Lewis to come to Washington that evening to discuss the matter.

At a meeting that evening Secretary Paulson, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, Lewis, Bank of America's CFO, and other officials discussed the issues surrounding invocation of the MAC clause by Bank of America. The Federal officials asked Bank of America not to invoke the MAC until there was further consultation. There were follow-up calls with various Treasury and Federal Reserve officials, including with Treasury Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke. During those meetings, the federal government officials pressured Bank of America not to seek to rescind the merger agreement. We do not yet have a complete picture of the Federal Reserve's role in these matters because the Federal Reserve has invoked the bank examination privilege.

Bank of America's attempt to exit the merger came to a halt on December 21, 2008. That day, Lewis informed Secretary Paulson that Bank of America still wanted to exit the merger agreement. According to Lewis, Secretary Paulson then advised Lewis that, if Bank of America invoked the MAC, its management and Board would be replaced:
"[W]e wanted to follow up and he said, 'I'm going to be very blunt, we're very supportive on Bank of America and we want to be of help, but' --as I recall him saying "the government," but that mayor may not be the case -"does not feel it's in your best interest for you to call a MAC, and that we feel so strongly," --I can't recall if he said "we would remove the board and management if you called it" or if he said "we would do it if you intended to." I don't remember which one it was, before or after, and I said, "Hank, let's deescalate this for a while. Let me talk to our board." And the board's reaction was of "That threat, okay, do it. That would be systemic risk." "

In an interview with this Office, Secretary Paulson largely corroborated Lewis's account. On the issue of terminating management and the Board, Secretary Paulson indicated that he told Lewis that if Bank of America were to back out of the Merrill Lynch deal, the government either could or would remove the Board and management. Secretary Paulson told Lewis a series of concerns, including that Bank of America's invocation of the MAC would create systemic risk and that Bank of America did not have a legal basis to invoke the MAC (though Secretary Paulson's basis for the opinion was entirely based on what he was told by Federal Reserve officials).

Secretary Paulson's threat swayed Lewis. According to Secretary Paulson, after he stated that the management and the Board could be removed, Lewis replied, "that makes it simple. Let's deescalate." Lewis admits that Secretary Paulson's threat changed his mind about invoking that MAC clause and terminating the deal.

Secretary Paulson has informed us that he made the threat at the request of Chairman Bernanke. After the threat, the conversation between Secretary Paulson and Lewis turned to receiving additional government assistance in light of the staggering Merrill Lynch losses.
Lewis spoke with individual Board members after his conversation with Secretary Paulson. The next day, December 22, 2008, the Board met and was advised of Lewis's decision not to invoke the MAC. The minutes of that meeting listed the key points of Lewis's calls with Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke:
"(i) first and foremost, the Treasury and Fed are unified in their view that the failure of the Corporation to complete the acquisition of Merrill Lynch would result in systemic risk to the financial system in America and would have adverse consequences for the Corporation; (ii) second, the Treasury and Fed state strongly that were the Corporation to invoke the material adverse change ("MAC") clause in the merger agreement with Merrill Lynch and fail to close the transaction, the Treasury and Fed would remove the Board and management of the Corporation; (iii) third, the Treasury and Fed have confirmed that they. will provide assistance to the Corporation to restore capital and to protect the Corporation against the adverse impact of certain Merrill Lynch assets: and (iv) fourth, the Fed and Treasury stated that the investment and asset protection promised could not be provided or completed by the scheduled closing date of the merger, January 1, 2009; that the merger should close as scheduled, and that the Corporation can rely on the Fed and Treasury to complete and deliver the promised support by January 20, 2009, the date scheduled for the release of earnings by the Corporation. "

The Board Minutes further state that the "Board clarify[ied] that is [sic] was not persuaded or influenced by the statement by the federal regulators that the Board and management would be removed by the federal regulators if the Corporation were to exercise the MAC clause and failed to complete the acquisition of Merrill Lynch."

Another Board meeting was held on December 30, 2008. The minutes of that meeting stated that "Mr. Lewis reported that in his conversations with the federal regulators regarding the Corporation's pending acquisition of Merrill Lynch, he had stated that, were it not for the serious concerns regarding the status of the United States financial services system and the adverse consequences of that situation to the Corporation articulated by the federal regulators (the "adverse situation"), the Corporation would, in light of the deterioration of the operating results and capital position of Merrill Lynch, assert the material adverse change clause in its merger agreement with Merrill Lynch and would seek to renegotiate the transaction."

Despite the fact that Bank of America had determined that Merrill Lynch's financial condition was so grave that it justified termination of the deal pursuant to the MAC clause, Bank of America did not publicly disclose Merrill Lynch's devastating losses or the impact it would have on the merger. Nor did Bank of America disclose that it had been prepared to invoke the MAC clause and would have done so but for the intervention of the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve.

Lewis testified that the question of disclosure was not up to him and that his decision not to disclose was based on direction from Paulson and Bernanke: "I was instructed that 'We do not want a public disclosure. '"
Secretary Paulson, however, informed this Office that his discussions with Lewis regarding disclosure concerned the Treasury Department's own disclosure obligations. Prior to the closing of the deal, Lewis had requested that the government provide a written agreement to provide additional TARP funding before the close of the Merrill Lynch/Bank of America merger. Secretary Paulson advised Lewis that a written agreement could not be provided without disclosure.

Lewis testified that there was no discussion with the Board about disclosure to shareholders. However, on the night of December 22, 2008, Lewis emailed the Board, "I just talked with Hank Paulson. He said that there was no way the Federal Reserve and the Treasury could send us a letter of any substance without public disclosure which, of course, we do not want." The December 30 Board meeting minutes further reflect that Bank of America was trying to time its disclosure of Merrill Lynch's losses to coincide with the announcement of its earnings in January and the receipt of additional TARP funds: "Mr. Lewis concluded his remarks by stating that management will continue to work with the federal regulators to transform the principles that have been discussed into an appropriately documented commitment to be codified and implemented in conjunction with the Corporation's earning [sic] release on January 20, 2009."

It also bears noting that while no public disclosures were made by Bank of America, Lewis admitted that Bank of America's decision not to invoke the MAC clause harmed any shareholder with less than a three year time-horizon:
"Q. Wasn't Mr. Paulson, by his instruction, really asking Bank of America shareholders to take a good part of the hit of the Merrill losses?
"A. What he was doing was trying to stem a financial disaster in the financial markets, from his perspective.
"Q. From your perspective, wasn't that one of the effects of what he was doing?
"A. Over the short term, yes, but we still thought we had an entity that filled two big strategic holes for us and over long term would still be an interest to the shareholders.
"Q. What do you mean by "short-term"?
"A. Two to three years."

Notably, during Bank of America's important communications with federal banking officials in late December 2008, the lone federal agency charged with protecting investor interests, the Securities and Exchange Commission, appears to have been kept in the dark. Indeed, Secretary Paulson informed this Office that he did not keep the SEC Chairman in the loop during the discussions and negotiations with Bank of America in December 2008.

As this crucial recovery process continues, it is important that taxpayers have transparency into decision-making. It is equally important that investor interests are protected and respected. We hope the information herein is useful to you in your federal regulatory and oversight capacities and we remain ready to assist further in any way. We also note that we have been coordinating our inquiry with the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, whose investigation also remains open.
[Signed,]
Andrew M. Cuomo
Attorney General of the State of New York
cc: Neil Barofsky, Special Inspector General, Troubled Asset Relief Program 
Cinnamon GirlPosts: 3,736
Posted: 27 Apr 2009, 3:08pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
I call it property theft so the government can supply a failed business model. That's all semantics though; the important thing as that we both agree that if the state had kept their nose out, FDR had never been born, and The General Theory went unwritten, everybody would be happier right now.

 laugh

True that, Toblerone.
Beyond the shards of glass scattered across a pathway lies a shattered human being (Adams, 2009).
Pseudo CoupPosts: 1,792
Posted: 24 Jun 2009, 3:12pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
If anyone wonders why I am so voiciferously against the prevailing economic system, this broke my soul today.

Two quotes from 2001 and 2002, from Nobel prize winning economist, and one of the most cited and respected economists alive today, Paul Krugman. Also a Neo-Keynesian who just loves ol' Statey.


"Meanwhile, economic policy should encourage other spending to offset the temporary slump in business investment. Low interest rates, which promote spending on housing and other durable goods, are the main answer. [emphasis added]"

Paul Krugman, 2001

"To fight this recession the Fed needs…soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. [So] Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble."

Paul Krugman, 2002


What could possibly go wrong Paul?
StrykeSuper Hyper-Mega
Posts: 4,241
Posted: 3 Jul 2009, 8:47pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09

 How satisfying would of his  'I told you so' been. I reckon he would have came as he said it.

 

When I die. I want to be frozen. And if they have to freeze me in pieces, so be it. I will wake up stronger than ever, because I will have used that time, to figure out exactly why I died. And what moves I could have used to defend myself better now that I know what hold he had me in.
JayarPromoters
Posts: 2,790
Posted: 5 Jul 2009, 5:37pmSubject: Re: Global economic crisis 08/09
total gold
what i find more interesting is just how wrong the others commenting were. laugh
do these people still have any credibility?

fucking hell, even i remember people in THIS country warning of the dangers of our economy being fuelled on credit based spending and the housing bubble.


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