Rudd's 'War on Binge Drinking'

So, Kevin Rudd's first really bloody stupid policy announcement (in my opinion) is this 'War on Binge Drinking'. I read today in The Age that the Victorian state government is even keeping the option on the table of increasing the minimum drinking age to 21. I suspect everyone here knows what a futile move that would be.

Does anyone think Rudd has any hope what-so-ever in tackling what is really just an important element of Australian youth culture?

I was amazed at how fast the beverage firms decided they'd phase out the alcopop drinks that are apparently so popular among this target group of 18 to 25 year olds. Maybe it's just me but I suspect there were some private threats made towards them. If these drinks are phased out completely young people will just move to drinking something else, right?

Do you think just increasing the taxes on the drinks that young people apparently so readily abuse would work?

 Kind of off topic but I am sick of moving towards some kind of nanny state that we seem to be doing.

 It's like all the social freedoms/stigmas that our parents generation managed to tear down are under threat by the same generation now they are in power.

 Wtf.

 21 legal drinking age? What a joke.

 

Another joke is how they keep raising the prices on alcohol. I'm pretty sure they have raised the taxes at least twice if not more in the last year, which doesn't stop most young people who binge drink. It really just makes it harder for everyone, not just the young people. Personally I think their "War on Binge Drinking" is ridiculous.

i personally love a good binge

Interesting way to look at it. I hadn't thought of it that way before but you're completely right.


You say it makes it harder for everyone and that it doesn't stop those who binge drink, but do you think it makes less people binge drink as much overall? I mean there probably is nothing that can be done over the space of a year (without something really drastic like taking all alcoholic drinks off the market) to completely stop binge drinking but don't you think that an increase in price reduces the amount of people who drink a lot?

Yeah if people want to binge that's their own problem. I don't mind a good binge either, but I don't feel the need to start shit on people which is what gets this on the news anyway.

Yeah, pisses me off to no end. I could rant and rave for the next 4 years about how much it sickens me that we aren't allowed to make our own decisions.
Lifting the drinking age ain't gonna do much. Young kids will still find a way to get into Daddy's liqour cabinet, you know what I mean? If the government seriously views alcohol as a threat they should do a total ban. Not fucking pussyfoot around with the laws and shit. They banned marijuana didn't they?
Oh fuck, they make money off of booze, same with the ciggies ey.
Fucking bunch of dickheads. They know that what we are having (ciggies/alcohol) is causing prolems, but they don't want to lose any revenue, so they allow us to have it, then fuck with us even more by making laws that don't even help fix the problems they're concerned about.
I'm not saying I want these products banned (I am a bong loving, chain-smoking alcoholic), I'm just pointing out what I'm sure many are aware of. The government doesn't give a fuck about us. We ain't nothing but hoes and tricks to them. Making money off of products that kill us? That shit is sick.
We'd probably be better off with a leader who still remembers what it was like to be in their 30's let alone 20's. Fucking catering for the old boys ain't doing this state or country much good. Might go to live in Holland.

Personally I'm not a fan of this but at the same time I totally understand why they're doing this. Unfortunately there are too many wankers in this world who fall apart on the grog, especially large quantities, and then feel the urge to argue, fight, smash things, trash the place etc and it seems to be getting worse & worse. I have no problems with what people choose to do to themselves, wether that be drug use or excess alcohol consumption but when was the last time you saw somebody on pills start a fight or smash a bottle. Anyone who is pissed on the other hand.....

Another thing I have heard a bit of talk about is cutting back the operating hours of pubs and clubs. Believe it or not but I actually agree with this. I really dont see the point of venues needing to be open past 3 or 4am and I especially don't get why so many venues these days have 24 hour licenses. It's ridiculous and it really does cause a lot of problems in the city imo.

Yeah this is what I was sort of attempting to get at. Not everyone turns into an arrogant immature shit who likes to 'fuck shit up' when they are on the piss (although there seems to be more and more of them lately). There's no reason to punish people who go out and get really messy but are still half normal in terms of being rude, arrogant, etc. Shit when I'm messy I'm probably a nicer and friendlier person than I am when I'm sober. I tend to be a lot more accepting of wankers when I'm drunk.

When ya need to chuck a buck in the pokes, ya need to chuck a buck in the pokes.

I think it's probably relevant to mention that apart from the obvious reason of alcohol related violence (as Noddy has mentioned) and other more direct problems stemming from people drinking too much there is the long term health effects that young people don't think about - Rudd's policy is also attempting to address this.

I think part of the policy is to create more awareness of these health issues that people might experience down the track as a result of their binge drinking. On the one hand more awareness can't be a bad thing - but whether it will be effective or not is another matter.

Did awareness of health problems relating to smoking really help? I can't answer that...

Well it certainly didn't help for me. The only thing that is making me want to quit is not being able to afford it.

The health issues don't bother me at all. People can do whatever they want to themselves as far as I'm concerned. But more & more, people who are heavily intoxicated seem to take their issues out of their own personnal space, and that is where it becomes a problem.

I've noticed this all more and more recently, having been off the booze for the last 3 months or so and to be honest, it turns most people into fucking wankers. You don't notice it that much when you yourself are pissed but when sober it is so bloody obvious is isn't funny. The majority of people can't control their feelings when boozed up and the line between right & wrong certainly blurs. And the more people drink the worse this gets. Now if people want to binge drink in private I'm all for it. But anything to make this harder to do in public is a really good thing from where I'm standing.

Noddy I have to say I pretty much completely agree with you on this. Using the concept of 'personal space' is spot on for this issue as well! Health issues are a private thing, and if you are in your own space and decide to do something to yourself (whatever that is) and you are the only one to deal with the consequences then there's no point in anyone else trying to restrict you.

I am not much of a drinker at all so when I read your line about people basically turning into 'fucking wankers' when intoxicated really made me smile. Certainly is correct.

There's nothing the Government can do to stop people from being cunts on the piss though. And my point is that you have you're illegal narcotics, most importantly (imo) weed, that rarely have that nasty an effect on someone, and you have your legal drugs, such as alcohol. Legal because it brings in money. The governement can't make people behave, so if they're serious about addressing the problems they should illegalize it. Same as ciggies. (It ain't that bad smoking outside, by the way! I remember the fuss I made back in November, ha ha.) People are still gonna be fuckheads though, that brawl at Worldsend had nothing to do with alcohol, believe me.

And when working in a bar you have to put up with people like this every single night.

 This is very true.

 I hate having to go anywhere with a large crowd of drunken idiots. 

There is always good and bad sides to arguments and in this particular argument there are so many elements. Violence, driving whilst under the influence and the degrading social fabric of society are just a couple of negative issues out there. On the positive it helps fat people and dog ugly bitches get laid   Yes there are a hell of a lot of responsible people out there who enjoy booze and cause no problems what so ever. Then you have the bad side of all this which seems to be getting more and more attention lately. What was previously a case of good outweighing the bad. And now its the scales being tipped and the bad outweighing the good. Kinda why ive just quit my job in BWS. I just cant handle the bullshit anymore.

So OK, i might get flamed for this but GAF. But Id like to see booze banned full stop. I haven't had a heavy drink or even been classed as drunk for over 8 years but i do love a nice relaxing drink of jager or bourbon whilst out. Or some nice wine with a meal. But i could easily go without to see all these problems go away. Not that they would as it would just go underground like my old friend marijuana. I come from the retail side of booze industry so i cant really comment on all the shit that goes down in the hospitality industry but i can imagine the problems it causes. I generally avoid going anywhere i know there will be excess booze being consumed. Thank god the DnB scene is pretty good and most people here are not the loud obnoxious retards in the majority of clubs around adelaide. I just cant be around it and one of the reasons I generally avoided Drunk shop(no offence simmo or patchy) and the cheap vodka nights at whatever that club Pratty used to run.

Its really fucked up how people abuse alcohol and their lives are from my observation are pretty hollow and pathetic. Having worked in booze shops and sold alcohol for the last 8 yrs, one observation i have to make is that alcohol does cause brain damage. I see it every day whether that be old people or young people. It is far worses among young people who have parents who hit the booze hard. Monkey see monkey do kinda situation. I see people waste sometimes hundreds of dollars a week on booze and most are oblivious to the impact this has on their lives. Most are in denial that they have problems and the worst seem to be your average husband and wife who will come in alternate days to buy their booze so it looks as though they aren't buying much. God knows if they are also choosing to shop elsewhere too. The worst thing i hate hearing is people saying to me at the counter, gee i've had a shit day but its about to get better. Like their life is crap and now i'm gonna get pissed and its gonna be all better. Pathetic. But it is so entrenched in our lives from an early age. I have at least a quarter of my family whom id consider abusers of alcohol. Sickens me to see how they abuse it at family gatherings and then have a go at me and my cousin for popping out to have a quick pipe. But thats another argument

There is no easy solution to this problem and there will never really be a solution until our social values change which i dont ever see happening soon. 

And then as for the price of booze going up, booze is generally has its tax hiked twice a year at around 0.2% in February and August and it also gets another hike when CPI is inflicted( 2ish %) on everything. It would have to be taxed at nearly 40 cents in the dollar now. If a company such as BWS have sales in their liquor group around the billion dollar mark each year and we have around 20% of the retail market for alcohol. The sums add up to around 5 billion a year in sales for just the retail side of the alcohol industry. And at a conservative figure of 40% tax, why would the govt want to ban alcohol when it rakes in around 2 billion in tax alone each year. Its frightening numbers

And then all this talk of banning alcopops. I don't believe for one second that a company such as independent distillers( the largest manufacturer of such drinks) is going to give up the hundreds of million plus dollars a year they sell of these drinks. And they are one of maybe 5 companies whose sole aim is to provide these sorts of drinks to the market.

Anyway thats enough from me now and i'm glad i am not involved in this industry anymore as they basically sell death in a bottle. End rant

Way to take a stand, Benzaah.   

if kids won't be able to drink booze there is only one logical step to take start drinking hydro chemicals obviously

what drinks have been taken off the market?

Aren't there more important things that Rudd and his advisors and ministers could be doing at this point in time?

Binge drinking. I mean, really...

Anyway, regarding alcohol, my 2c is that banning/prohibition is not the answer. Everything is ok in moderation, and we should not let a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of us who a) like a social drink and b) can control ourselves, for the most part.

From an economic point of view, the only real way to stop it happening is price it out of the market i.e. make it so expensive, only a certain percentage of the population can afford it, and certainly not poor students who 'binge'.

But, as has been pointed out, that won't happen because of the amount of revenue generated by the taxes on alcohol. Same with petrol. If the economic powers were so committed to going 'green', alcohol would be $10 per litre.

I can completely understand your point here, but it simply wont happen, because a) As you said the Government takes a huge amount of taxes on alcohol and in the result of a banning, those taxes would be lost, hence resulting in budget cuts in other areas sinces these taxes would lost, possible causing a rise in GST etc. b) The aspect of the amount of buisneses going down the drain due to not making enough money, and with Adelaides relatively large hospitality industry, this would cause a massive spike in unemployment. From a Social point of view I can completely understand where you are coming from, but from an socio-economic(?) point of view I just can't see it being practical. I really can't see any practical solution to this problem except trying to target it at the source, i.e. the idiots who cause all the problems in the first place.

Good to see someone else enjoys a Jager when out as well though. I always seem to get wierd looks when I ask for a Jager and Squash.

Jager?

What are you, 17?

Not Jagerbombs, I just like it as a mixer or even on the rocks.

instead of introducing a nanny state or try to tackle 'binge drinking', the government needs to stop people from glorifying binge drinking - by addressing the reason why its popular or why people do it in the first place. i hate all these band-aid remedies, address teh cause and it wont be a problem anymore.

ps even tho it seems crap to have to do it, i think the government should spend more time helping parents respect themselves, and for people to generally have more respect for themselves as well as others. a lil bit of respect goes a long way, just read over these posts and it seems that what people are lacking in their lives (happiness, esteem etc) they try to make up or cover with drinking. its sad.

Most pillers are chillers

But gear or ice on the other hand, turns some everyday normal people in to thinking they are built like a brick shit house & are unstoppable! I've witnessed it plenty of times!


Least when your paro & fighting, you eventually give up coz your too drunk to try to continue biffing!  (From what I've seen)


Also aising the legal drinking age ain't gonna do shit imo!




I was watching something on TV the other night that Fosters (I think thats them) are discontinuing making Cougar & McKenna RTD's.

And also a few pubs/clubs don't sell RTD's either.

And your point being? Isn't the fact that they start fighting in the first place the main issue?

No point, just giving my opinion & examples on how some people act on different things... 

Where is it glorified though?

I'm pretty sure The US did this in the 20's with great success. People respected the laws, and the cost of enforcing the ban was low, meaning that the lost revenue from the ban was more than offset by the reduction in crime. Nobody bothered to import alcohol illegally, despite the huge profit motive to do so. There was definitely no establishment of organised crime syndicates taking advantage of the prohibition and arranging the importation, distribution and sale of blackmarket booze, followed by other more serious crimes.


Anyway, the last I heard, Russia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Norway, the US and some parts of Canada all still have their prohibition laws enacted - and to great effect! I can't see how anyone could possibly find a counter-argument for this extremely well thought out view!

 

  leezee hit the nail again!

personally, i think its all a bit ghey and nanny statish. one of the things i remember most about the US was pissed 21 year olds acting like our 18 year olds... yet the italians, germans and french often introduce their kids to wine etc with dinner at 15/16 - i'd be interested to know what the levels of alcohol abuse are when the kids are introduced under adult supervision.

One thing I think works well in Germany in particular is how young people (at 16 IIRC) can buy the 'light' alcoholic drinks like beer and wine, then they can buy the 'hard' alcoholic drinks (spirits etc.) at 18. I think many other European  countries have very similar systems

At least this way they learn to handle alcohol a bit more responsibly because they aren't jumping in the deep end...

Beautifully stated.

aussie society? sports? car races? when ISNT alcohol prominent as a sponsor or a past-time in aussie society???

ooh its during the prohibition era in the usa that all the mafia gangs started up! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States

dunno if it was that useful?? they successfully repealed the ruling cause too many underground gangs were causing trouble and making criminal acts cool n shit.

prohibition/decriminalisation never works. showing people that moderate and responsible consumption of substances is much better for them, and for the people around them, is a whole lot better imo. as jayar points out, many european countries allow kids to drink when younger, supervised by adults, and they learn that alcohol is just like any other treat...consume in moderation, most of the time! when things arent made into a big deal, then they wont become a big problem.

That was Liam's point Anna.

 



I am totally scanning pages at the mo, cause i've missed a week of posts hehe

  Understandable, just remember Liam is a believer in the scientific method and a skeptic, so any posts in response to abstruse ideas without any rational support are almost always going to be negative (and correct). It has become one of my scanning axioms.

  so true!

axiom - wotd for me! *tries to use it in thesis*

 

Im all for hydro chemicals

we should market this shit mate.

 

I reckon, if people are going to up the age limit for drinking then they should bloody go and up the age limit for driving too whilst they're at it. Or make the laws more strict in regards to teens/P-platers driving. Isnt it that more people die in car accidents than drinking?

some 1 remind me to hit benzaah with a chair next time i see him out

why not ban oxygen 2

We have a binge drinking epidemic apparently but also an obesity epidemic. We should ban food too.

Did you know:
1) More than 98 percent of convicted criminals are bread eaters !


2) Exactly half of all children who grow up in bread - eating households score in the bottom 50% on standardized IQ tests !

3) In the 19th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 55 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, scarlet fever, smallpox and influenza ravaged entire nations !


4) Statistics show that more than 75 % of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread !


5) Bread is made from a substance called "dough." Researchers have proven that as little as one pound of dough can choke a large animal like a horse. The average person eats more bread than that in one month !


6) Bread is known to be extremely addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water, actually begged for bread after just two days !


7) Bread is a "gateway" food item, which usually leads to such items as butter, jam, peanut butter and even ... bacon !


Bread has been proven to kill. Scientists have now uncovered alarming evidence that 100% of the people who eat bread will eventually die !


9) Unattended newborn babies can choke on bread !


10) Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 425 degrees Fahrenheit ! Don't laugh...that kind of heat can kill a full grown adult in less than five minutes.


11) 96 % of cancer victims eventually admit that they've eaten bread !


12) Sadly, 9 out of 10 bread eaters are unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.

They sell Oxygen as a party upper at night clubs in NZ

BAN!  

Man o Man how long did it take for you to come up with all of that? 

Prohibition won't work and is a ridiculous suggestion.

Raising the legal drinking age won't change anything, it'll just mean there are more under-age drinkers.

If they're going to make it so you have to be 21 to drink - then they should make it so that you have to be 21 to drive, buy cigarettes, vote, etc etc.

@ Liam.

Yeh that'll stop all little sisters in the world! 

We should start a petition 

20 seconds on google 


BTW, I heard that the Bureau of Incomplete Statistics recently released a study that proved that 9 out of 10 people.

9 out of 10 people what. that they are idiots? 

  Oh Erika, I can only hope the irony was intentional.

But you live in Adelaide where there aren't any people under 21, so what's it matter anyway??

In Victoria the issue is basically the violence that comes with drinking. They've recently relaxed licensing laws which allows more venues to open and serve drinks, which means more people drinking more which means more violence. It's kind of true, but the Victorians forget to factor in the fact that Victorians are just wankers in the first place, and deserve to be beaten up, even by other Victorians.

I agree with the Fuck the Nanny State mentality too. I think the answer is MORE violence. Death Penalty for anyone caught fighting in the street when drunk. Shoot any person urinating in the street. Taser anyone drinking in a dry area. Water Torture for drink drivers. Go from being the Nanny state to the Dominatrix state!

Now we're talking...

Awesome... just awesome!

Ice epidemic, binge drinking epidemic, blah blah

What Rudd should really be focusing on is fairy bread. Yes that fucking coloured spotty bread. Heavy as.
I was at a kid's party on the weekend and you should have seen the way it changed those kids once the fairy bread came out. They were like fiends! This vicious cocktail has mind altering characteristics as the kids were going nuts! Fighting, screaming, crying, blood, tears. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't witnessed it. It was hell on earth in that playgym, and this socially acceptable substance is available off the shelves.

 

There's literally hundreds of backyard kitchens 'cooking' that scourge up with only a few easy to obtain ingredients!

Let's start by banning bread! See below, the statistics speak for themselves!

Bread is one thing, and not to be taken lightly, but at least bread is natural.

This new "fairy bread" stuff is horrific and will tear apart the very fabric of our society.

Made in backyard labs with poor hygiene, and cheap. God help us all.

Derail = Epic Success


Not always - preservative 282 in bread is a big contributor.

The thing that makes bread so evil is the fact that it takes away dough from the kneady.

Badoom tish.

Waiting for epic lulz here, you ungrateful cunts. How often is it that you're gifted with puns like that hey?!? HEY?!? I spent fucking ages on those two little 'jokes' and not a response from anyone? Fuck all of you, I'm giving up on this bread shit. Yeah, that's right, my pun-making days are toast.

but keep it on topic - this thread is in the soap box.

Sorry Khem, didn't mean to get a rise out of you, but I was on a roll. I will stop with the crusty jokes.

I have to admit that was a pretty good derailment by AM standards. The initial "misalignment in the tracks" (mylo's post) was pretty damn funny.

Keyser is doing well also.

That is the yeast you could do to be honest!

Derailment accomplished!

Hi-five bitches!

Love it 

Hat's off to Keyser. Jolly good show old chap!

I give up on this thread.