Giving up rights for security? hmmm

Posted: **4 Aug 2005, 12:27pm**

Was thinking about this a little bit yesterday.

There’s been so much hysteria over the threat of terrorism & security lately, yet the amount of people killed and injured has been pretty small comparatively and it seems to me the reaction has been perhaps a bit over the top. There’s all sorts of discussion about curbing our freedoms (and human rights) and reducing our privacy all in the name of a threat that has had little impact so far. Car accidents for example kill far more people every year and it’d be a much easier and cheaper way of saving lives, but I doubt the solutions required (reduced speed limits, reduced car power outputs etc) would be deemed acceptable by a large amount of the population. But a compulsory $200-$700 ID card containing your retina scan & finger prints, constant surveillance and police state powers are apparently ok?

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not belittling the terrorism risk, just seems it’s getting blown a little out of proportion perhaps? Food for thought…

Posted: **4 Aug 2005, 12:57pm**

I've been following this both here and overseas (some of the stuff the US are talking about scares me).

What grates me more than anything else is people trotting out the: "I've got nothing to hide, so I've got nothing to fear," line as if the only people who should be concerned are criminals.

But it extends much further than that. It's only going to take one unstable person who's working in the "right" job to access the records of his/her ex-partner, kids, estranged parents or whatever. These people haven't done anything wrong - yet a single identity card could conceivably be used against them by someone who's got the right access.

There's also the fact that being able to identify someone isn't necessarily going to prevent anything. It's a reactive rather than proactive measure.

Posted: **4 Aug 2005, 5:41pm**

I'll pay $500 for an ID card if it stops the idiots at the Immigration Department putting me in a detention centre.

Occulto wrote:

It's a reactive rather than proactive measure.

That's what politics is all about.

Posted: **4 Aug 2005, 5:48pm**

if i had $500 itd be spent on a hooker, not an id card. immigration centre would be a great place to be.. regular beatings, free accomodation, get to whinge and protest and you get to eat the guy's dinner (thats protesting and refusing to eat). or the guy himself if only they'd realise that its 2005 and eating people should be legal. as for terrorists im sick of the word.. if only they (they: being the idiots in charge) really wanted to fix the problem. terror, deception, they're not new to this ancient world. its not about suicide bombers and its not about innocent lives.. dont ask me what its about either because i will only lie to you.

Posted: **6 Aug 2005, 3:24am**

Outsider wrote:

dont ask me what its about either because i will only lie to you.

ahh..so you work for the liberal party do ya hun...

Posted: **6 Aug 2005, 5:03am**

Outsider wrote:

if i had $500 itd be spent on a hooker

for that sort of money i can sort you out with two asian birds in nothing but fur coats in the back of a limo

Posted: **6 Aug 2005, 10:04am**

i work for many parties.... quote i could be lying unquote.

and rnt that would be the best $500 spent. hehe.

man am i tired today an allnighter last night

but im still at work arent i a good lad

------------------
on topic.... i think we as a society are going to need to sacrafice several of our liberties to further and better our security and protection. the fact that now muslims are more likely to have checks and surveillance is discriminative and its a very fine line that is being pushed.. all in all this is a very tough call..

Posted: **7 Aug 2005, 10:59pm**

Outsider wrote:

on topic.... i think we as a society are going to need to sacrafice several of our liberties to further and better our security and protection.

why?

id be happier if they dropped the speed limits by a further 10km/h across the board. it would certainly save more lives than any of this anti-terror BS, and we get to keep the kind of personal freedoms that actually matter.

Posted: **8 Aug 2005, 1:10am**

I already carry around an ID card (licence) and that is as much as they (the man) will ever get from me. The thought of having to carry a card around that says who I am, where I'm from, etc already freaks me out, let alone fingerprints etc.

It's not that I get up to anything sus, I just don't want to be hassled without reason, which I feel will happen with these new cards. One form of compulsory ID is enough methinks.

As for police state powers, good lordy lord! What good is it going to do by being able to search bags willynilly? The terrorist will detonate on the spot, the normal person wastes the officer's time and their own.

Despite police state powers, new fangled ID cards or anything else..

NOTHING will stop some idiot making a bomb and blowing some shit up.

Also, not to take anything away from the terrorism risk, but we have seen bugger all action in Australia. Do we really need to start taking people's freedoms away because the general public are too stupid to realise the minimal threat facing us day to day?

It's all just another excuse for 'the man' to tighten it's net around us. Playing on people's fears and exploiting them for their own gain.

my 2c and i sincerely apologise for any offense caused.

Posted: **12 Sep 2005, 12:43am**

i think it's unfortunatley the way the World is goin

a society that is already fiercely regulated, restricted and licenced can only get more so...

Neutral

Posted: **12 Sep 2005, 12:00pm**

apparently the federal government is deporting an american peace activist who has been involved in community campaigning against Haliburton (the company that makes money in the dropping of bombs on iraq and then funnily enough makes money in the contracts to rebuild the infastructure and had the usa vice president as CEO until 2000) as he's viewed as a security threat!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1458026.htm

jesus fucking christ, are we living in a police state?

this is seriously fucked up - disagree with the government and ASIO is on your arse...

Posted: **12 Sep 2005, 4:13pm**

Your post makes it look like you are surprised by this jayar...

To answer your question: Almost, we are getting there.

Posted: **12 Sep 2005, 6:46pm**

oli wrote:

Your post makes it look like you are surprised by this jayar...

To answer your question: Almost, we are getting there.

im more suprprised that no one seems to know anything about it, much less care about it. i cant even imagine how we are actually letting this happen.

might seem a bit melodramatic, but do we need to show the parallels between whats happening now and hitlers rise to domination?
or even the emperor in star wars??

if people only got off their arses to occasionally listen to what was being done and what it would actually mean to their lives, they might actually be so shocked into doing something...
Neutral

keep sleeping and bring on the police state Sleeping

Posted: **12 Sep 2005, 7:11pm**

One word...
REVOLUTION

Posted: **12 Sep 2005, 7:24pm**

Most people are more concerned about their family, their household debt, interest rates, petrol prices, and football.

Posted: **13 Sep 2005, 12:31pm**

probly slightly off topic, but poignant none the less.

stupid dubyah

http://costofwar.com/

Posted: **15 Sep 2005, 4:13pm**

scott parkin was deported today

he was a peace activist giving workshops and talks about non-violent protest, deemed 'a threat to national security' by asio, never charged with anything and not even told why he was deemed so...

quite a fucked up day for australian governement. there goes more of our rights and freedoms.
disagree = punch

Posted: **15 Sep 2005, 4:24pm**

jayar wrote:

scott parkin was deported today

he was a peace activist giving workshops and talks about non-violent protest, deemed 'a threat to national security' by asio, never charged with anything and not even told why he was deemed so...

quite a fucked up day for australian governement. there goes more of our rights and freedoms.
disagree = punch

that is so fucked up man.. i guess thats what they call "protecting our freedoms" you see if they take our freedom then they can just hold onto it until there are no more terrorists................yeah right... welcome to Australia..

Posted: **15 Sep 2005, 4:24pm**

jayar wrote:

scott parkin was deported today

he was a peace activist giving workshops and talks about non-violent protest, deemed 'a threat to national security' by asio, never charged with anything and not even told why he was deemed so...

quite a fucked up day for australian governement. there goes more of our rights and freedoms.
disagree = punch

mmm i saw this... a sign of things to come?

Posted: **15 Sep 2005, 10:09pm**

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/fbi-says-parkin-welcome-in-us/2 005/09/15/1126377404101.html

FBI says Parkin welcome in US.

Best quote:
"There's about as much evidence of Scott representing a threat as there's been evidence found of weapons of mass destruction."

What has happened to him is pretty retarded.

Posted: **3 Feb 2006, 8:45pm**

We're all fucked!

Won't someone please think of the children!

Posted: **5 Feb 2006, 7:47pm**

When the government fears the people there is liberty; when the people fear the government there is tyranny.