fahrenheit 9/11

Posted: **14 Jul 2004, 12:22pm**

Ol Mike Moore does serve a purpose in raising awareness of issues and making people not take everything they read as gospel. This is all well and good as long as people dont treat his word as gospel as well and use the things he says as hard evidence. I found THe Big One to be his most "factual" movie, seemed to have the least amount of fact manipulation in it

anywho carry on...

Posted: **14 Jul 2004, 12:25pm**

Noddy wrote:

The truth about the fabricated facts and editing tricks used to change the truth to suit his arguments can be found here:

Bowling For Truth

mate, in 5 minutes of sifting through that site, i have already read a few outrageous distortions and innacuracies - more than moore could get away with in a movie.

if mike has fake 'grass roots' groups funded by the republican party (that got busted) to put pressure on cinemas across the US not to play F9/11, then shit like this is even easier to pull off. if he lies, he gets his arse in court.

look into peoples motives behind what they do and their background before you take things on face value. a guy arguing for gun control, corporate accountability and getting the troops out of iraq gets more respect from me than politics/business/media working backroom deals (or worse still sending people to war) to everyone elses detriment.

Quote:

Then why do people, yourself included, use his films as some form of undisputed evidence for your extremist views.

When all he is doing, is using paranoid people like yourself to fill his bank accounts and continue living and partying with the people he uses to make his millions by insulting them. Those who take his word as gospel arent revolutionary, or anti-establishment nor are you keeping the world safer by challenging the rulers of countries. You are simply fools, blinded by a lot of false truths who in the process are making Michael Moore a very wealthy man.

where have i ever said i thought it was gospel? like i said before, look at peoples motives - everyone knows hes made a business out of this. most people wouldnt have a clue at the level of ownership of various forms of media and advertising of news limited (murdoch) or the packers, and their constant lobbying of the government.

the bush family is a lot richer than moore will ever be. bush senior is raking in something like 50 times the amount per year with his oil interests than W is as president! you dont think thats going to affect anything?

i think its really sad if you believe your last paragraph. it shows your ignorance of the way the world ACTUALLY works. sure the thruth aint nice sometimes, but to stick your head in the sand wont solve any problems, god help you if it affects you personally and more directly one day in the future. youre not an extremist, or consider yourself revolutionary if you choose to question the status-quo. a 'business as usual' lifestyle lines the pockets of the bush's, the murdochs etc etc more than people going to watch a michael moore film makes him rich.
you can get sued for slander/libel if you deliberately misrepresent something and its proven. if mike isnt sued, id guess the cases against him would be fairly weak, we'll ust have to wait and see.

Posted: **18 Jul 2004, 6:01pm**

Went and saw the advanced screening of this at the east end cinema's and was a movie that really does open your eyes to whats going on around you. Micheal moore doesnt actually accuse anyone of anything in that movie, he rather puts a point across and backs it up with evidence. For example, he shows US soldiers talking about how they dont understand why iraqi's dont want them there when they are there to help them and then he shows footage of how the raids are done on civillian houses in Iraq which you would never see on public TV which are quite disturbing to be honest.

For those that dont want to see or have the guts to accept the truth like some ppl on this board, id still recommend you watch this film. Itll hopefully make you see that what is going on atm really doesnt relate to what you see, read or hear in todays media. I hope itll actually make the australian public realise what kind of an ally our puppet leader howard has when voting at the next election.

Posted: **18 Jul 2004, 7:17pm**

I am going to see this commentary movie tonight (I wish people would stop calling it a documentary). Should be interesting... Will post my opinions soon.

Posted: **18 Jul 2004, 8:22pm**

I just finished downloading it then so I'll watch it later tonite.

I dont expect much from it mind you except an overweight, over payed fuckwits opinion on how to make money from paranoid conspiracy theorists and x-files geeks.

Posted: **18 Jul 2004, 9:23pm**

Noddy wrote:

I just finished downloading it then so I'll watch it later tonite.

You Pir8!

Quote:

I dont expect much from it mind you except an overweight, over payed fuckwits opinion on how to make money from paranoid conspiracy theorists and x-files geeks.

At least he doesn't kill innocents while doing it.

Posted: **18 Jul 2004, 9:30pm**

I love your thinking Josh.

He's on 60 minutes at moment, got the entire rightwing population eating out of his hand like some form of cult.

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 1:03am**

Brodez wrote:

I love your thinking Josh.

He's on 60 minutes at moment, got the entire rightwing population eating out of his hand like some form of cult.

Remind me not to fly with you, cause you definitely have your wings on the wrong way.

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 1:10am**

oli wrote:

At least he doesn't kill innocents while doing it.

From the looks of things he eats them tho!

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 7:11am**

Gentlemen.

Not having seen the movie I will admit to not having a leg to stand on with either jumping to either Jayar's or Noddy's argument.

I'll say tho that Mr Moore would be extremely pleased to read this thread and see the division and heated argument caused by the mere idea of his movie and himself.

Mebbe we could get him on 'Disturbance of the Peace' charges??

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 4:18pm**

CHOMP

I've nothing against the guy, in fact I have the utmost respect for an entrepreneur like Moore who can gross $87million in 3 weeks by telling people that Bush is a wanker, the US has a screwed up policy and that certain atrocities are taking place. But fuck me, I knew all that without paying some fat guy in a baseball cap to tell me so. I'm really looking forward to seeing the movie, I just find it ironic that you're all defending him to the death when all he's doing is exploiting 'that' certain mindset you have.

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 8:39pm**

Noddy wrote:

oli wrote:

At least he doesn't kill innocents while doing it.

From the looks of things he eats them tho!

So he is an overweight American, big deal! It's nothing out of the ordinary there, hell it's nothing out of the ordinary here anymore either!

I don't hold anything against people because of their appearance.

Quote:

I've nothing against the guy, in fact I have the utmost respect for an entrepreneur like Moore who can gross $87million in 3 weeks by telling people that Bush is a wanker, the US has a screwed up policy and that certain atrocities are taking place. But fuck me, I knew all that without paying some fat guy in a baseball cap to tell me so. I'm really looking forward to seeing the movie, I just find it ironic that you're all defending him to the death when all he's doing is exploiting 'that' certain mindset you have.

Why are you going to go see the movie if you allready know all that without him telling you?

Most people want to see it, they are just intrigued by the hype, and the brash and controversial style Moore has. I think it's great, it's a good wakeup call for the normally bland political and social commentators we see around the Western world. And he tells things the way he thinks they are, and in most cases it's the truth.

Exploited? Whatever... You are going to see it too!

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 9:45pm**

So you had no idea of Bushs' policy and what was really going on in Iraq before you saw the movie?

Sorry, but I did, and it didn't take that much 'research' beyond the normal western media. Like I said, i dont mind the guy (or his films) at all, I just think its funny that it's taken something so commercial for everone to realise 'Hang on a sec, maybe Bush has fucked up.' Then again, 90% of the population are so self-contained in their own little worlds that something like this would have to be shoved in their faces at good old Marion Megaplex before they take notice, so yes it's a great eyeopener.

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 10:21pm**

Brodez wrote:

So you had no idea of Bushs' policy and what was really going on in Iraq before you saw the movie?

What? I said that?

When I said "Why are you going to go see the movie if you allready know all that without him telling you?" I was responding to you saying:

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But fuck me, I knew all that without paying some fat guy in a baseball cap to tell me so.

Yet you keep saying you'll go see it too?

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Sorry, but I did, and it didn't take that much 'research' beyond the normal western media. Like I said, i dont mind the guy (or his films) at all, I just think its funny that it's taken something so commercial for everone to realise 'Hang on a sec, maybe Bush has fucked up.' Then again, 90% of the population are so self-contained in their own little worlds that something like this would have to be shoved in their faces at good old Marion Megaplex before they take notice, so yes it's a great eyeopener.

Er, I think it's so popular and commercial precisely because so many people allready agree with what Moore says and thinks, not because they have no idea and are going to see it for the information and opinions it puts to them.

So are you in the 90% of the population whose 'research' consists of reading the 'normal western media'? After all you said numerous times you will go and 'have it shoved in your face' at Marion or wherever else...

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 10:57pm**

Quote:

So are you in the 90% of the population whose 'research' consists of reading the 'normal western media'? After all you said numerous times you will go and 'have it shoved in your face' at Marion or wherever else...

So, by me knowing what Bush and his policy was about BEFORE knowing about fahrenheit, I am in that 90% of the population that seem to have no context of what is happening in the world? Sorry, you've lost me.

All Im saying is that I did not need this movie to open my eyes to what is going on, but it seems that a great percentage of that $18million worth of people did. In my life I want to learn everything about everything to my full potential, so why would i not witness Moores' findings?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

If this movie was released at the 'Palace Novas' of the world would it be as popular?

Posted: **19 Jul 2004, 11:27pm**

Brodez wrote:

So, by me knowing what Bush and his policy was about BEFORE knowing about fahrenheit, I am in that 90% of the population that seem to have no context of what is happening in the world? Sorry, you've lost me.

Forget it, you lost me too.

Quote:

All Im saying is that I did not need this movie to open my eyes to what is going on, but it seems that a great percentage of that $18million worth of people did. In my life I want to learn everything about everything to my full potential, so why would i not witness Moores' findings?

18$ million worth of people? How do you value people? Are some people worth more than others? I don't get it... You've lost me again.

Anyway I disagree that it's the movie and the movie only which is opening peoples eyes as to what is going on. Seems quite a few people on this board take some elitist view of themself as some kind of enlightened minority of the population, and believe that they know so much better than the rest of the population. Kind of sad really, but I'm not going to try and change it...

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 2:23pm**

Brodez, i think you should just keep quiet, cause the more you talk, the more your going to fall behind.
People dont go to that movie to find out what is going on. Most of the people who goto that movie already know that Bush is a fucked up idiot.
They go to check out the finer details, or cause they would rather see a flick that is about the actual truth rather than seeing a hollywood flick with the same ending as the other past 500 movies that hollywood have released. I knew pretty much half of what was in that movie. But i ended up going. So did, probably, about 70-80 percent of the other people in that cinema.

It seems to me like you think you know a lot, but to be honest i think you dont even know a fraction of it..Instead of paying Micehal moore 13 bucks, you just go pay 13 bucks to a dude that makes a film about a boy and a girl who end up falling in love like the last ten he made...

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 2:59pm**

i've got it on dvd....so if you wanna borrow it pm me..

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 3:01pm**

Can someone tell me please if this movie is out yet?

Thanks

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 3:07pm**

hayley wrote:

Can someone tell me please if this movie is out yet?

Thanks

It's out, in a cinema near you!

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 3:33pm**

Don't mind me, Im just having fun. It's what I do. Try it sometime.

Out of curiousity though, what are you, and that '70-80 percent' of people that have seen the movie, doing now you are empowered with all this newfound truth?

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July 16, 2004--Fifty-one percent (51%) of voters say they trust President Bush more than John Kerry (44%) when it comes to national defense and the War on Terror.

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Monday July 19, 2004--Fifty-two percent (52%) of American voters say they approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President. Another 47% disapprove.

The majority of Americans are stupid. Im hoping as much as you are that this doesn't translate to Australia, I just believe it'll take something 'more than Moore' to achieve this. That's all I'm trying to say!

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 5:16pm**

hayley wrote:

Can someone tell me please if this movie is out yet?

Thanks

you can borrow it after schmoo next week if you want...

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 6:15pm**

c1 wrote:

Brodez, i think you should just keep quiet, cause the more you talk, the more your going to fall behind.
People dont go to that movie to find out what is going on. Most of the people who goto that movie already know that Bush is a fucked up idiot.
They go to check out the finer details, or cause they would rather see a flick that is about the actual truth rather than seeing a hollywood flick with the same ending as the other past 500 movies that hollywood have released. I knew pretty much half of what was in that movie. But i ended up going. So did, probably, about 70-80 percent of the other people in that cinema.

It seems to me like you think you know a lot, but to be honest i think you dont even know a fraction of it..Instead of paying Micehal moore 13 bucks, you just go pay 13 bucks to a dude that makes a film about a boy and a girl who end up falling in love like the last ten he made...

Ive never seen a thread with more bullshit and made up statistics then this one. Hell, Mustafa can actually tell what everyone in a cinema knows before they enter it now. Thats an amazing talent.

Does the movie have footage of the war in it. Im keen to watch some dumb ass Iraqis get blown up on the big screen. Bring that shit on !!!!!!

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 7:31pm**

Noddy wrote:

Does the movie have footage of the war in it. Im keen to watch some dumb ass Iraqis get blown up on the big screen. Bring that shit on !!!!!!

Yes, you can see some blown up Iraqis and Americans. Some of the footage is pretty gruesome.

By the way, seeing severely wounded children in particular sucks no matter where they are from.

Last edited by oli on Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 7:44pm**

Noddy wrote:

c1 wrote:

Brodez, i think you should just keep quiet, cause the more you talk, the more your going to fall behind.
People dont go to that movie to find out what is going on. Most of the people who goto that movie already know that Bush is a fucked up idiot.
They go to check out the finer details, or cause they would rather see a flick that is about the actual truth rather than seeing a hollywood flick with the same ending as the other past 500 movies that hollywood have released. I knew pretty much half of what was in that movie. But i ended up going. So did, probably, about 70-80 percent of the other people in that cinema.

It seems to me like you think you know a lot, but to be honest i think you dont even know a fraction of it..Instead of paying Micehal moore 13 bucks, you just go pay 13 bucks to a dude that makes a film about a boy and a girl who end up falling in love like the last ten he made...

Ive never seen a thread with more bullshit and made up statistics then this one. Hell, Mustafa can actually tell what everyone in a cinema knows before they enter it now. Thats an amazing talent.

Does the movie have footage of the war in it. Im keen to watch some dumb ass Iraqis get blown up on the big screen. Bring that shit on !!!!!!

If there is anything regarding bullshit in this thread josh, its you and your posts. You havent even come close to the meaning of truth with any post you have made recently so dont try and make it look like your the oracle here..

Have a good look at the part where iraqi's are dragging dead americans along the ground. Im sure youll enjoy that section cause i loved it..Im also keen to see your reaction when its someone you know that is in the same situation. Im sure youll be loving watching the scene of a dead relative and how they were blown up accidently by an american precision weapon aiming for the 19 month old terrorsit that was sleeping in his crib.

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 7:48pm**

IMO both Noddy and c1 need to chill the fuck out, either way I bet most of the Iraqis who died were innocent - and the US soldiers who got killed are doing a job.

People dying in war is not good, so grow up and recognize that the problems and the people you hate are the leaders causing the problems, not the poor Iraqis who get bombed, or the poor American soldiers who get sent to do a job then have their bodies burnt by mobs.

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 7:57pm**

After seeing the torture images and soldiers saying "I feel like i want to kill again" after just shooting some dud, i dont know how you can say they are there doing thier job??
If the american soldiers are so emotionless to not feel bad after killing someone or anyone, then im sorry but i have no emotion for those people either. If your going to say its an isolated incident, you know that that statement is as much bullshit as anything else the americans have said.
After watching families in america even support the tortures, your telling me to chill the fuck out??
I dont think so oli, i think its you who needs to see what is going on and that they are definitely not there to free the people of iraq.

Same to you oli, id like to see your response when your house gets taken off you cause you have oil underneath it, and then your family gets killed on top of that plus you get accused of terrorism for trying to fight back to get what is yours.

If i was a normal human being in the american army, and i knew that the reson i was there was bullshit, thus i was killing ppl for the ebenfit of the bush family and his buddies, id rather desert the army and be sentenced to death than live with the gut feeling that i killed ppl for the wrong reason..

Posted: **20 Jul 2004, 10:32pm**

c1 wrote:

After seeing the torture images and soldiers saying "I feel like i want to kill again" after just shooting some dud, i dont know how you can say they are there doing thier job??
If the american soldiers are so emotionless to not feel bad after killing someone or anyone, then im sorry but i have no emotion for those people either. If your going to say its an isolated incident, you know that that statement is as much bullshit as anything else the americans have said.
After watching families in america even support the tortures, your telling me to chill the fuck out??

Any chance you have forgotten there are fucked up people on both sides with those views, people on both sides torturing, people on both sides supporting that?

One thing I particularly liked about Moore's film was the way there were interviews with American soldiers who thought the way you have outlined above, but to balance it out there were also interviews with those who told that the gruesome things they'd seen and in part done made them look at it all differently - and that they hated being there, and they hated the job they were doing.

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I dont think so oli, i think its you who needs to see what is going on and that they are definitely not there to free the people of iraq.

No shit, I never said they were there to free Iraq, and you don't need to keep telling us that they aren't there to "free Iraq". We aren't stupid.

Quote:

Same to you oli, id like to see your response when your house gets taken off you cause you have oil underneath it, and then your family gets killed on top of that plus you get accused of terrorism for trying to fight back to get what is yours.

Same too me? What the fuck man? I understand you feel more pity for the Iraqis than the Americans, but bloody hell, you're sitting here in peaceful South Australia and you're telling me "Same to you oli". You'd like to see my response when my family and life is taken away because I'm accused of terrorism or because of oil - this shit hasn't happened to you, so don't say "Same to you" to anyone cause AFAIK it hasn't happened to anyone here, and anyone includes you.

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If i was a normal human being in the american army, and i knew that the reson i was there was bullshit, thus i was killing ppl for the ebenfit of the bush family and his buddies, id rather desert the army and be sentenced to death than live with the gut feeling that i killed ppl for the wrong reason..

Once again, you are sitting in peaceful Adelaide saying this. Easy to say, obviously not so easy to do. A fair chunk of the US military (at least the "boots on the ground" people have no choice in life but to be either a) on the street, b) in prison, or c) in the military. Obviously they've chosen the military, and they have to do the job.

Easier said than done...

c1Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 910

Firstly, i dont think you need to go through an expirience like the iraqi's are right now to understand that you would be a tad pissed off. I think since we are all humans, the iraqi's have the right to self defence as well..

To me it seems like its too hard for some people to understand that if the west just fucked off out of the middle east, didnt butt into anything overboard, then there wouldnt be islamic extremists killing westerners. I dont think its that hard to understand that when you see a relative of yours killed by an occupying force, your going to be pretty pissed off.
I was wondering if you watched the bush special that sbs had on tonight?
At the very end of that episode, it showed american soldiers barging into a house that has a woman, 3 kids and a husband with automatic rifles, and the little girl who wasnt older than 8-9 yrs old starting crying. Then, when the soldiers understood that there were some normal families in iraq, they just walked out. And these words wont make you feel the same feeling as to when you actually see that girl crying and wondering why this is all happening...

It also showed how much bullshit the bush government came up with just to create that fear he wanted in the public and world. And from what i can see its done a bloody good job of fooling a lot of people.

And even though this has all been started by bush, you still can say that american soldiers are thier doing thier job?

Quote:

Once again, you are sitting in peaceful Adelaide saying this. Easy to say, obviously not so easy to do. A fair chunk of the US military (at least the "boots on the ground" people have no choice in life but to be either a) on the street, b) in prison, or c) in the military. Obviously they've chosen the military, and they have to do the job.

So just cause some guy in america cant be stuffed getting off his ass, studying and earning a real life, just so he can earn money and live, that gives him the right to invade a country over false pretenses and kill people that have no right to be treated the way they are now?
Are some people more improtant to you than others??
What you are saying is that an american is more important than an iraqi.
If people in america are so god damn ignorant that they think thier own life and income is more important than some guy in Iraq's, why should any person in thier right mind defend someone like that?
Why the hell would anyone defend the US when they back a country that goes against a world court ruling?
Its not that hard to understand that the middle easterners have more right to defend themselves in a situation like that.

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 12:16am**

that doco was pretty good. part 2 is on next week.

if anyones interested:

Quote:

Cutting Edge: The World According To Bush

TUESDAY, 20 & 27 JULY at 8.30PM

THE WORLD ACCORDING TO BUSH screening on Tuesday, July 20 and 27 at 8.30pm, is a two-part documentary which takes an in-depth look at the Bush administration. Among those interviewed in the program are Bush speech writer David Frum, former chief weapons inspectors Hans Blix and David Kay, author Norman Mailer, presidential adviser Richard Perle, Secretary of State Colin Powell, ex-CIA operatives Robert Baer and Robert Steele, former CIA director James Woolsey and former UN secretary general Javier Perez de Cuellar.

Issues covered by the program include:

The business connections of the Bush “dynasty” including how Prescott Bush, the current President’s grandfather invested money for the Nazis during World War II. Prescott’s companies were taken over by the American government because of his co-operation with the Third Reich. One of his companies operated mines in Poland using inmates of nearby concentration camps as forced labour.

Conflict of interest issues – the Vice President’s wife currently sits on the board of the Giant American arms firm Lockheed Martin, a company which receives federal government contracts. Charles Lewis, director of the Centre for Public Integrity comments on the inappropriateness of another position – that George Bush Senior works for the Carlyle Group, a private equity house which handles nearly 16 billion dollars (US) in investments. The majority of its activities are linked to the defence sector. Bush senior is therefore working for an American military contractor during a period when his son, the president, conducts a war.

The close ties between the Bush family and administration and Saudi Arabia. Historian Joseph Trento says Saudi Arabia spends more money in Washington than almost any other government. Ex CIA analyst Robert Steele comments, “we have essentially been whores, political whores for the Saudis for the last 40 years.” Analyst Laurent Muarwiec describes how he lost his job after his report to the Defence Policy Board was leaked. His report described Saudi Arabia as America’s most dangerous opponent in the Middle East and active at every level of the terrorism chain.

How Bush’s own religious beliefs and ties to the Christian right shape his presidency including his foreign policy. The program examines the de facto alliance between the Christian right and the Israeli lobby. Adviser to Ronald Reagan, Michael Ledeen claims that a higher percentage of American Christian evangelicals support Israel than American Jews.

Analyst Robert Steele comparing the propaganda efforts of the current administration, to promote the war in Iraq to Goebbels. He claims that even while people were still dying during the September 11 attacks White House officials were calling a serving general to tell him to “pin it on Iraq”.

Ex-chief weapons inspectors Hans Blix (UN) and David Kay (CIA) criticising how the Bush administration pursued WMD. Kay comments, “the worse thing for a democracy is to suppress the truth in the interests of an election.”

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 12:18am**

c1 wrote:

Firstly, i dont think you need to go through an expirience like the iraqi's are right now to understand that you would be a tad pissed off. I think since we are all humans, the iraqi's have the right to self defence as well..

To me it seems like its too hard for some people to understand that if the west just fucked off out of the middle east, didnt butt into anything overboard, then there wouldnt be islamic extremists killing westerners.

Totally agree.

Quote:

I was wondering if you watched the bush special that sbs had on tonight?

I didn't. Did anyone tape it?

Quote:

It also showed how much bullshit the bush government came up with just to create that fear he wanted in the public and world. And from what i can see its done a bloody good job of fooling a lot of people.

Indeed it has - Everytime I hear about it, I just think of Orwell's "1984".

Quote:

And even though this has all been started by bush, you still can say that american soldiers are thier doing thier job?

When I say "doing their job" I just mean that they don't feel that they have a choice, or that the alternatives to doing some terrible shit in Iraq are going to be better than anything else.

Quote:

So just cause some guy in america cant be stuffed getting off his ass, studying and earning a real life, just so he can earn money and live, that gives him the right to invade a country over false pretenses and kill people that have no right to be treated the way they are now?

Huh? You've lost me - I have no idea how you came up with that.

Quote:

Are some people more improtant to you than others??

In terms of importance to me personally, yes, My family is more important to me than others - but I think you meant something else - so I'll tell you that I agree with the UN Declaration of Human Rights which says:

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights."

Quote:

What you are saying is that an american is more important than an iraqi.

Where did I say that?

Seems like you are trying to put words in people's mouths (virtually). Why I don't know, but it's frustrating when trying to debate anything with you on this board...

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 12:43am**

Noddy wrote:

When all he is doing, is using paranoid people like yourself to fill his bank accounts and continue living and partying with the people he uses to make his millions by insulting them.

saying stuff like this sounds more conspiracy theory wet dream material than david koresh could ever have penned. mike moore partying with george bush?! ha indeed!

Quote:

I dont expect much from it mind you except an overweight, over payed fuckwits opinion on how to make money from paranoid conspiracy theorists and x-files geeks.

the bush family makes squillions more than moore could ever by relying on lazy people to not do anything and staying ignorant. you dont have to be a conspiracy theory nutter to dig a little below what the majority of western media feeds us. i know you dont like the man, but see the film before you slag off what he's trying to point out!

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 1:04am**

Your point of american soldiers doing thier job, to me, is quite wrong. Because you are saying that they have no choice but to go and shoot the iraqis so that they can earn a living. And im saying, especially in a country like america and from watching many doco's, you have to be a lazy bum cant be fucked no body to end up joining the army. Of course there are people who join cause they truely want to fight for america but as you said yourself many of the ground troops are there cause they have to be i.e. cant be bothered getting an education or try to even get a decent job. But this doesnt give them the right to go over into another country especially if you know that you are going over false pretenses and lies, and then kill innocent civillians, just so you can end up feeding yourself. If you participate in an illegal war, knowignly, you have no right to call the opponents terrosits and give them a bad name. If you do so then of course the other side has the right to self defence.
But in the war of so called terorism, the iraqis and many other the ones who have been attacked and killed illegally yet for some reason we are still calling them terrorist???
I dont understand how and why anyone can have the face to try and defend a government like america and thier military, when they know what they are doing is illegal and they also support other countries who do illegal things.
The solutiuon is so basic, yet no one wants to pullout. Well then you have to accept the concequences and fight a FAIR war.

If you dont want westerners being killed or people blowing themselves up, then have the balls to sell or give the middle easterners some apaches and decent weaponary, and trust me, they wont need to kill themselves.

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 12:23pm**

c1 wrote:

Your point of american soldiers doing thier job, to me, is quite wrong. Because you are saying that they have no choice but to go and shoot the iraqis so that they can earn a living. And im saying, especially in a country like america and from watching many doco's, you have to be a lazy bum cant be fucked no body to end up joining the army.

In that case, just agree to disagree - because a lot of those soldiers are not lazy bums, and they can be fucked, and they are "somebody". Have you forgotten parts of the film which outlined the economic situations in many areas of working class America? The number of jobs there continues to decline, and many people are in desperate financial situations, where they simply have no jobs or educational paths available to them at all. In these cases the army is the only viable option.

Quote:

Of course there are people who join cause they truely want to fight for america but as you said yourself many of the ground troops are there cause they have to be i.e. cant be bothered getting an education or try to even get a decent job.

Just cause they have to be there it doesn't mean they can't be bothered getting an education - do you have any idea how much it can cost to get an education in the USA? It's not quite as nice as here with our HECS system and our low TAFE fees. The option of college or university is simply impossible to reach for a huge portion of Americans.

You say "decent job" - being in the army is probably considered an excellent job for many of those people. The extra benefits that most military personnel get are huge, they are well looked after in the military.

Quote:

But this doesnt give them the right to go over into another country especially if you know that you are going over false pretenses and lies, and then kill innocent civillians, just so you can end up feeding yourself. If you participate in an illegal war, knowignly, you have no right to call the opponents terrosits and give them a bad name. If you do so then of course the other side has the right to self defence.
But in the war of so called terorism, the iraqis and many other the ones who have been attacked and killed illegally yet for some reason we are still calling them terrorist???

You are trying to put words into peoples mouths again. I never said Iraqis are terrorists, and I never said it's right to kill innocent civilians, "just so you can end up feeding yourself".

The only point I'm really trying to make is that the problem is with the leaders, and not the individual soldiers. The leaders have a choice, the soldiers do not. Recognize that point, because otherwise you will just sit here posting the same things over and over again.

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 1:35pm**

*throws popcorn* down in front!

sorry.

Quote:

The only point I'm really trying to make is that the problem is with the leaders, and not the individual soldiers. The leaders have a choice, the soldiers do not. Recognize that point, because otherwise you will just sit here posting the same things over and over again

Very true. BTW, you do realise you keep arguing over the same shit anyway, just in different threads....

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 2:41pm**

schmoo wrote:

Very true. BTW, you do realise you keep arguing over the same shit anyway, just in different threads....

Yeah, that's why I said that.

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 4:33pm**

oli wrote:

schmoo wrote:

Very true. BTW, you do realise you keep arguing over the same shit anyway, just in different threads....

Yeah, that's why I said that.

You should have elaborated a little bit further to say that then oli. That isn't how the statement reads really...

.

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 6:13pm**

oli wrote:

The only point I'm really trying to make is that the problem is with the leaders, and not the individual soldiers. The leaders have a choice, the soldiers do not. Recognize that point, because otherwise you will just sit here posting the same things over and over again.

Yes the problem is with the leaders, but that is only up until the point, thier little scheme has been revealed to the world. If not all, most soldiers now know that they are over in iraq for bullshit reasons and that it was all a lie. And eventhough they know this, they are still there, killing innocent ppl. And in the end, who is the one that is being blamed and being labelled a terrorist?????
There is something that these soldiers can do, but they dont. Its called going against your commanders. Yes it is a hard decision to make but if you are killing ppl over false pretenses and lies DELIBERATELY then who should be the one labelled as a terrorist??
And if your over there as a soldier, and know that your there for bullshit reasons yet still enjoy killing innocent ppl, then i dont even think i need to say who is in fault.
It is upto these soldiers to do what is right according to the geneva conventions as well as thier commanders as they know that its all a big fat lie that bush pulled out of his ass.
And as i said previously, if they continue to do thier so called job eventhough they know what we know, then they deserve all they get as they dont give a shit about their opponent either. Especially when they are going againt International law and the geneva conventions. They have no right to label iraqis as insurgents or terrorists when they themselves are the murderers..

Posted: **21 Jul 2004, 8:17pm**

I dont care. Let em kill each other.

Like i give a fuck about dropkicks over there in Iraq. The only thing i care less about is this thread!!!

Posted: **22 Jul 2004, 11:23am**

Noddy wrote:

I dont care. Let em kill each other.

Like i give a fuck about dropkicks over there in Iraq. The only thing i care less about is this thread!!!

is someone not getting enough sleep?

Posted: **22 Jul 2004, 12:58pm**

Ive been getting too much sleep!!!!!

Ive just decided to stop caring about people in a different country to me. Hell they dont even speak English. Fucking freaks!!!!

Posted: **22 Jul 2004, 2:12pm**

Sleeping Sleeping Sleeping

my god this is a boring arse thread. im glad there are people like you who care, cos i certainly dont!!

Posted: **22 Jul 2004, 2:46pm**

i knew this topic would spiral out of control, but i think its good that people do have an opinion on these things

i would like to see the movie to actually see another side of the story - while i understand that Moore is very opinionated and may creatively edit to show his points, he is still showing facts (yes facts Noddy, cause like Jayar said, if they werent facts he'd be in the shit) that we dont see in the regular media.

id also like to point out something i heard Dr Carl Crushenitchky (completely wrong spelling i know) say on JJJ a couple of months ago

he was saying something like; years back when everyone was worried about communism, it was used to justify a lot of things, like intrusions into privacy and laws were changed. if you replace the word communism with terrorism, exactly the same thing is going on now.

Posted: **23 Jul 2004, 12:17am**

Khem wrote:

Sleeping Sleeping Sleeping

my god this is a boring arse thread. im glad there are people like you who care, cos i certainly dont!!

yep, got quite dull real quick. but still, different country = affect us whether you like it or not!

Quote:

he was saying something like; years back when everyone was worried about communism, it was used to justify a lot of things, like intrusions into privacy and laws were changed. if you replace the word communism with terrorism, exactly the same thing is going on now.

yeah, its all just the new witch hunt.

c1Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 910

For those that dont give a fuck, then stay outta the thread. Posting in this thread shows that you have some interest in it.

There are some people in here that do give a fuck about other people so if you dont, then easy, dont post.

Posted: **23 Jul 2004, 10:42am**

im in california, which is a very free-thinking state of america, everyone tells me 'he's not my president!' and there are so many cars with stickers saying the same thing..

cant wait to get outta kamp krusty and see the doco myself!

GOD BLESS MICHEAL MOORE!

c1Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 910

Im keen to see if the people in city's like new york, LA, Washington think the same..Keep us updated alana and hold in there at kamp krusty

Posted: **23 Jul 2004, 11:02am**

i'll see what ppl think.... not really inclined to get into political discussions with americans... the californian guys here think bush will be kicked out this year in the up coming election...

in a sick sad way im loving kamp krusty; being a dag everyday! if only you guys could see me now! gold!!! hehehe...

big up to c1!!

you'll be seeing me soon on jerry and good morning america!!

check out the lyrics thread - might just post my favourite camp song!

c1Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 910

Big up yoself larny lesbian..Remember, you promised to go onto Today show. Dont disspapoint me

Posted: **27 Jul 2004, 3:02pm**

Gonna check ti tonight.. got a bali copy as well.

I think it will be interesting but fuck you all carry on!!

image not archived: funkyj.gif · Posted: **13 Aug 2004, 1:18pm**

interesting how Moore doesn't TOUCH the Isreali involvement.

Too much Jewish money in the film methinks.

I'd heard all this delived well by Jello Biafro (ex Dead Kennedy's), but Moore makes a damn good film.

If nothing else, lets hope it makes Americans at least THINK of voting

Posted: **13 Aug 2004, 5:17pm**

If moore went into israel invovlment, that film would have never of made it onto the screens.
Multi million dollar israel owned companies give too much money to political parties including kerry (especially bush).

Posted: **13 Aug 2004, 5:36pm**

*avoids thread completely*

Good luck solving the world problem on a DnB forum guys!

Posted: **14 Aug 2004, 11:02am**

stinKmoX wrote:

*avoids thread completely*

well not quite completely.

Posted: **14 Aug 2004, 11:22am**

*still avoiding thread*

Posted: **2 Sep 2004, 1:12am**

stinKmoX wrote:

Good luck solving the world problem on a DnB forum guys!

Posted: **11 Nov 2004, 3:36am**

we may not solve the world problems but atleast it will show us who the igno-rant ones are

re: he doesn't state all the facts. I've seen many discussions on new programs about his movie.

eg. re: bin ladens family being flown out the country the only mistake there was that it was a bush aid who organised that. That doesn't mean bush didn't organise it.

Yes, Moore is biased, but if what he did was a C grade high school essay I'd hate to see an A grade one. All he left out was the truth about ISRAEL. Which I noticed with one of my previous posts on this site even got deleted, that if you attack israel you get shut up or told your a terrorist sympathiser

Israel was a terrorist state in the 1940's then in 1949 it was granted sovereignty over arab land and the terms were reversed.

It's ironic bush states that we need to attack nations that sponsor terrorism. ummm.. who sponsored Bin Laden to fight the Russians, who sponsors intervention in South American politics (The school of america) see School of America Watch or the offical homepage of the school of the americas website

there are things to do on the net other than porn and dnb sites

**I know my spellings shocking**

Posted: **3 Feb 2006, 9:02pm**

Khem wrote:

Sleeping Sleeping Sleeping

my god this is a boring arse thread. im glad there are people like you who care, cos i certainly dont!!

It's because there are too many people like yourself who don't care that the government walks all over us. I think it's good that Moore is doing his bit to open peoples eyes. If you don't care that's fine, just don't complain when you find yourself out of work one day and there's no more centrelink or medicare and you get thrown in a detention centre because you can't contribute to the global corporation.

Posted: **6 Feb 2006, 12:01pm**

sorry, im failing to see the link between a documentary on terrorist attacks and the goverment in america and medicare in australia.

damn conspiracy theorists... i bet you wear a tin foil hat.

Posted: **12 Feb 2006, 1:38pm**

Actually it's an Armadillo Helmet!